Can you play a real song?! Ugh!

[Jeff Budz]

CSI, don't think you will never be able to sing. It takes time (years) for some folks (myself included) to be able to carry a tune, but eventually things will fall into place. Memorizing lyrics gets way easier the more you do it as well. When people say "play a song" they want to hear singing with simple chord backup.

[Chuck Hooper]

so sorry for your loss.i have been taking lessons and "playing" for less than a year.im 64 and fast approaching 65. as i have gotten older (and somewhat wiser) i have found myself caring less and less about what others say about things in general and my musical "abilities" or lack of them to be more specific. i play the mandolin because I like the sound and I get enjoyment from it. i have heard a lot of songs by various bluegrass groups both recorded and live.most of the vocals are a very long way from carnagie hall or the metroploitan opera. i am slowly getting better on the "picking" part of the music but i made a discovery about a month ago that playing the chords "guitar style"(strumming) allowed me to "play"(learn) more "songs" faster . songs that most people recognize quickly.i am still working on my "picking" technique too. i can do a wicked "rocky top" and john denvers "some days are diamonds..." my family is impressed,i am impressing myself.probably some mandolin "purists" might have a problem with strumming as opposed to "picking" and thats ok. I enjoy what i am playing and will continue to do so.as for the singing part...i play a little louder and "sing" a little softer.

[tkdboyd]

Thanks to all for your kind words on the loss of my mom. She was only 64 and though I'm nearly 38 she was my best friend so honestly, I've been feeling lost. Haven't felt like playing but I'm getting back into it.

Lost my Father on his 73rd birthday (Oct. 25) He played mandolin...to be honest he was never very good but he put the "Spirit" into his playing and singing (wasn't very good at that either). He too, was my best friend, this would have been his first year of retiring from 50 or so years of ministry in small churches, I was looking forward to taking him to Bluegrass Festivals, a Bears game at Soldier's Field, etc...I don't know your pain but I can relate. I had the honor of playing mandolin for him the last two weeks of his life. Although it was October I played Christmas Carols. I also played a lot of Gospel tunes, Classical, and Bluegrass. As his body died, I played...I will never pick up my mandolin again without thinking about my father, all the good and the bad.

Just play it and enjoy. I know it is great to get positive comments from others and others aren't always kind or can be unintentionally cruel in their comments. Hang in there and keep hammering away at it, you'll get it.
When you play For you alone you are the everything

[dusty miller]

A little comment like that can sting when you're putting yourself out there to play something. I think the bottom line is as long as the mandolin is bringing enjoyment to your life and you are excited about what you know and are learning everybody else can go jump in a lake. Heartfelt sorry for your loss.

[OldSausage]

More than once, when we've played weddings or other functions, giving them an evening of classics from the back catalogs of Bill Monroe, Flatt & Scruggs, The Country Gentlemen, Hot Rize, and even a couple from the soundtrack of "O Brother Where Art Thou", someone has come up to me towards the end of the second set and asked: "Do you guys know any bluegrass songs?"

[bigskygirl]

I should add that I am DEFINITELY NOT a singer! LOL There's a reason I only sing in my car. When I'm alone. With the windows closed. LOL

You know, sometime in our lives someone says we can't sing and we take it as gospel truth. Singing is like any other skill, some people are naturals and others need practice. I thought I couldn't sing BC someone said that 35 years ago and I believed them, I played the clarinet for ages BC I didn't want to have to sing and when I first took up the guitar one reason I choose flatpicking is so I wouldn't have to sing.

I sing in the car and alone in the house but wouldn't in front of others. Then I took a few workshops and lessons and listened to others sing. Turns out I have a pretty good ear which helps playing mandolin....it also helps with singing.

When you are ready, take your mandolin (piano or keyboard is good too) and practice hitting notes, have your tuner handy too. it won't be pretty at first BC you'll have to learn how to hit the note and get to others but like anything else just practice and it will come. I find now at jams I sing more and I'm enjoying it.

Good thing joe Walsh (Eagles) didn't listen to anyone tell him he couldn't sing....ha (love him BTW)

[JeffD]

More than once, when we've played weddings or other functions, giving them an evening of classics from the back catalogs of Bill Monroe, Flatt & Scruggs, The Country Gentlemen, Hot Rize, and even a couple from the soundtrack of "O Brother Where Art Thou", someone has come up to me towards the end of the second set and asked: "Do you guys know any bluegrass songs?"

Oh mannn. Funny in a way. Sad-funny.

[Bertram Henze]

"Do you guys know any bluegrass songs?"

It's at times like these when we learn to count to ten. Slowly.

[Jon Hall]

What kind of music do your family members like?

I sympathize with the loss of your Mother. My wife, of forty two years, passed on last October. My oldest son, who is also 38, moved to my town so that he and his wife could help me. I'm sure you are very much appreciated by your family.

If you haven't found other musicians to play with, I encourage you to do so. They don't have to play mandolin. You will grow much faster musically if you are playing with others.

[stevedenver]

Melissa, I only wish I was in Kentucky, so that I could invite you to a friendly jam.
I am so sorry to hear about your Mom, I cannot imagine the loss.

Things take time to recover from, and a big loss can take a very long time.
You should be kind to yourself and patient in this sensitive and vulnerable time for you.

As for song folks know, I like 'Turkey in the Straw'. So old and so well known, but, done well, it can be a barn burner. Ripple and Friend of the Devil are also sure to please. Then again, you may not feel like singing or performing for a while.

Like others here, I have to say, I did not sing much until about 6 years back. I too had been told I didnt have a great voice, couldn't hold a harmony, was off on a note, etc,

One day, when invited to be a side man to a 'singer' he crashed and burned at a large party, and I tried to take up the slack. Folks were so kind and told me my voice was pleasant. One kind word, and I decided to revisit singing, which I did a lot when I started to play guitar as a kid.

As I was also the mando player in another BG band, I decided I needed to be able to harmonize. What I found was, I needed to get the sound in my head over to my voice, and that meant hitting the right note.
like learning to run, ride a horse, fence, golf, etc, singing is a physical skill, and, it takes a certain amount of time to train.
I thought about classes, but was so far below real singers, I just didnt feel like that was the place to start. But I did want to start singing daily.

heres what I used. It takes about 20 minutes daily to do the practice workout. IMHO, it's worth its weight in gold, easy to use, and if you practice daily, you will find, you can sing. You will gain control, more breath, and be on pitch. Like many things, it may take a couple of months, but you WILL find a huge change.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Contempora.../dp/0876391072

then, the next step is singing and playing at the same time.

I hope that singing will bring you some joy in this difficult time.
It is , I think, one of the best things to do with other people. Lots of endorphins....really.

[catmandu2]

As has been mentioned: being asked to "play a song" - is being asked to entertain. This is typically not the same thing as "playing a musical instrument" - requiring a different attitude, approach, and skill set. The many and varied anecdotes presented on this thread exemplify the ubiquitous challenges and particular approaches needed for resolution. Performing is skill that is not particularly easy, and particularly challenging for many.

I remember John McGann saying the thing he had the hardest time with students was getting them learn whole pieces not bits and pieces.

Performing "satisfactorily" is typically not the same as getting out your instrument and playing. That is, if one is to engage with an audience. IF one is to engage with an audience, then many factors immediately come into play. So, you can assess - what you are doing (in front of an audience), what it is you WANT to do, and subsequently - how to go about it.

If one is to become known as a player of an instrument - one will be asked to play. If you elect to play, you should start preparing yourself for varied responses. Are you going to just play (perhaps close your eyes, cover your face with a hat, avoid eye contact, etc); are you going to engage, etc. These are aspects a player (one who is asked to play) should prepare for.

A mandolin is typically not going to be the easiest (most logical) instrument with which to entertain. I came up studying classical and flamenco guitar, and was often disappointed and frustrated from responses I would elicit; I was frustrated as I would sit down and commence with the Bach - only to see people almost immediately disengage (when you get the instrument out in front of an audience, you are immediately engaged with their attention). Performing art music has its particular challenges - and venue is an important aspect. Since the power of sharing music is something I'm interested in - and I often wasn't producing the results I desired - as a solo performer, I elected to discover easier (more logical/practical) methods: instruments with volume, strong character, versatility and polyphony on which I could easily orchestrate arrangements, etc. Playing fiddle tunes is fine and often pleasing for an audience - but often not: some folks laugh when I play a "Fiddle Tune" (folks from classical or otherwise formal backgrounds, etc). Here is where we get into "real, legit, art" music vs "folk" music.

In a roomful of people - collected rather randomly someone in the audience will enjoy the Bach, and another will want to hear Dueling banjos. If you have luxury of selecting or refining your audience (people know what you do, expect to hear something particular, and/or pay to hear what you do), you may be able to minimize the vicissitudes of audience expectation etc.

I advocate approaching the "problem" of performing analytically.

[catmandu2]

I've been playing for over half my life, much of that professionally, and still get that sort of response from people. I think it is a combination of people not immediately being drawn to music that is outside of their frame of reference and not knowing that the way they frame their response doesn't come across as particularly nice or respectful. It becomes very clear once you find yourself in the position of putting your music out in to the world. Don't let it get you down, and keep on playing!

To quote John Hartford - "I got a letter here that says 'Dear sir, I wish that you would sing something I know so that I can tell if you are any good or not' " after which he jumps in to playing this:

Well said.

Randomly selected, most (American) audiences probably are not going to be drawn in by Bach, or flamenco, etc; more will be entertained by a fiddle (played with lilt) or folk/familiar song (sung). If the desire, or situation, is to engage - best to learn how to please a crowd (a la JH)

[Bertram Henze]

I recommend playing "Happy Birthday", that's what I call a common denominator.

[journeybear]

That's only going to work if it's somebody's birthday. And Christmas carols and holiday tunes are going to work best while it's winter. So get to work on them!

BTW, you could hardly go wrong with "This Land Is Your Land."

[Bertram Henze]

That's only going to work if it's somebody's birthday.

Ok, if my second-most terrible popular song won't work, you leave me no choice but to unwrap #1

[catmandu2]

I forgot the things which Mr McGann's remark evoked - wrt "whole pieces": this implies beginning, middle, and end - arranged, orchestrated, dynamics, etc. If we consider - music as drama - these elements should be present. I have found dramatic music (pieces with beginning, middle, end) to be most effective, for most of my audiences; but Bach is often too long and too subtle, flamenco too obscure, a fiddle tune too short, etc - to draw and hold attention. Repertoire is as important as presentation. Attenuated music - or music presented without dynamics, phrasing, cohesion, drama - may often be less satisfying...it certainly is for me as a player

[journeybear]

Ok, if my second-most terrible popular song won't work, you leave me no choice but to unwrap #1

Sorry, I missed the sarcasm in you previous post. Got to telegraph this stuff with a or a - something!

Actually - and sorry to disturb you - songs from musicals would work quite well, being recognizable and also very tuneful. And OWABM will work, even if it's not morning. And I mean that. Honestly!

[catmandu2]

- songs from musicals would work quite well, being recognizable and also very tuneful. And OWABM will work...

Quite - that's why they call em "standards" ... which by and large derive through popularization from cinema. Even with a mandolin - standards are crowd pleasers, but you have to play em well (with dynamics, phrasing, in their entirety, etc)

[Jeff Mando]

I've also had hecklers shout, "Play something you know!"

[Randi Gormley]

I've found that people who play genre music probably get more of the 'play a real song, why can't you' comment than other musicians. We get that a lot when we play Irish traditional music, even -- or that should probably be 'especially' -- in March for St. Patrick's Day. Since so much of ITM is obscure, and tunes, not songs, it's a given someone will ask if we know any "real" Irish music, by which they mean something written in the USA for a Broadway show, or something the Clancy Brothers recorded.

Some of the people I've spoken to don't consider a single instrument playing a tune or a song "real." They expect instrumentation, reverb, dual harmonies, back fill, fireworks ... at least a full string orchestra behind you. Anything else sounds thin or like an exercise. It can be frustrating, especially if you feel you've done something through hard work and ought to get at least a pat on the back. But some people just aren't going to supply that. It's not a lack in you, it's a lack in the audience.

Please accept my condolences on the death of your mother. My mom's been gone since 2007 and I still have to stop myself from picking up the phone and calling her when I can't remember what temperature to cook lasagna at, or if something big has happened in my life.

[stevedenver]

I've also had hecklers shout, "Play something you know!"

are they talking about the song, or an instrument.....LOL
better than "play Wagon Wheel"

[fatt-dad]

I also play nothing but obscure tunes from a bygone era. The most accessible tunes I play may be Arkansas Traveller, Liberty or The Eight of January.

Every year I play guitar and mandolin for a church talent show. This year, I've decided to play a few guitar tunes that folks know - you know ripped from Billboard's top 100. Here's my set list:

Careless Love (Blind Boy Fuller's setting of the Lonnie Johnson lyrics.
From the Beginning
Muskrat Love.

There ain't nothing I play on the mandolin that comes even close. They have grown to like it though. I'm thinkning of laying a Swedish fiddle tune on my church folks this year.

f-d

[Bertram Henze]

They expect instrumentation, reverb, dual harmonies, back fill, fireworks ... at least a full string orchestra behind you. Anything else sounds thin or like an exercise.

Yes, aurally pampered people who grew up with "processed music" (like kids who don't know that real fish contain bones); even when they see a single musician, they expect to hear a full band because that's how it's on TV.
Looking back, I guess that is the main reason I started to play Irish tunes mingled with double stops and full chords in order to sound more "complete", independently from the skills of accompanists.

[Cecily_Mandoliner]

CSIMelissa,
Sorry for your loss! I lost my mother in 2012 after losing her 6-month battle with cancer and 75-year battle to be immortal (she figured she would beat this thing). Her last Christmas present to me were two guitar books (I hadn't started mandolin yet; i bought a mandolin on the day I closed out her estate). One was Pete Seeger Song Book. This is a great little book of songs that are as "old as the hills" and fun to play. The other was a folk song fingerpicking book for the guitar. I was so pleased that she encourged my music adventure, even while she was sick!
Now, I play for my aunt and uncle as they are house-bound, and they really enjoy the old songs, and sing along when they can.
Allow your mandolin to help you with your grief. Find every minor song and play it with all the feeling. Then, your friends and family will know you're playing a "real" song. And, even try to strum some chords and sing out!
Hope that helps...
~Cecily

[Teak]

More than once, when we've played weddings or other functions, giving them an evening of classics from the back catalogs of Bill Monroe, Flatt & Scruggs, The Country Gentlemen, Hot Rize, and even a couple from the soundtrack of "O Brother Where Art Thou", someone has come up to me towards the end of the second set and asked: "Do you guys know any bluegrass songs?"

You obviously didn't play "Rocky Top" in your song sets.