What is it about recording????

[rubydubyr]

I find that a few shots of Jim Beam gets me through any recording session, seriously, running through the song a few times before you turn the recorder on really helps, my band made a CD and we only had to erase one song,1 out of 15, and we did it on the first take....Also I find that recording songs that you have played for years and years makes it a lot easier.....

Willie

OMG, JB or JD........ YES, that IS the solution!!!!!!!!

[rubydubyr]

Goodness, I never realized when I made the OP that there were so many of us were recording challenged! IF I had this much trouble chewing gum and walking, I'd be a walking accident! lol

[Steve Lavelle]

I'd like to put in a good word for Sound Forge. I've used it for mastering for years and I have just begun to experiment with the multi-track capabilities they added to it a few years ago. Audacity clearly owes a lot to this SW.

I'll take recording over live performance any day. That way, I get to decide the quality of what everyone else listens to. I know it's none of my business what other people think of me, but I can live with my mistakes a lot easier when they're in private.

[Mark Wilson]

If recording is something you think you might like to do now and then - then do it now and then when you don't need the outcome to be anything special. Do it for fun before you do it for fright.

I have issues with the last 10 seconds. Somewhere near the end I'll realize it's going well and stop breathing for fear of tripping over the ending and ruining all of it.

[JeffD]

I have issues with the last 10 seconds. Somewhere near the end I'll realize it's going well and stop breathing for fear of tripping over the ending and ruining all of it.

Yes I have experienced that many times. Anticipation of relaxing or something.

[Jesse Harmon]

Some really good discussion here. A couple days before Christmas on a whim I recorded a carol that was arranged by a friend for classical guitar. Since I didn't know it and did not want to take the time to memorize it, I read it on a stand positioned slightly off camera. It required many takes, even after practicing it a few times. But I forged on ahead, knowing that it was a little too tentative in a couple of spots. One of the things thoughts that kept coming up was the criticism of non readers that it lacked heart, or flow, or wasn't in the pocket. But as per Bertram I said, get the hell out of the car, and posted it on my Facebook page. The response was overwhelmingly positive. Many of my distant friends and relatives had never heard me play and even though I hope to redeem myself with a better performance another time, who knows whether I will get the chance. Many a performance anxiety problem was created by being around people who take themselves too seriously and inappropriate and unfair criticism.

[OldSausage]

Yes guys, learn some multitrack recording techniques and save yourselves some pain. It's a lot easier than having to nail everything you record in one take.

[bigskygirl]

......But as per Bertram I said, get the hell out of the car........

Love this!

[Jesse Harmon]

Yes guys, learn some multitrack recording techniques and save yourselves some pain. It's a lot easier than having to nail everything you record in one take.

I'm still putting my finger on the vinyl for my slow down program and you want me to learn multitrack recording tecnniques!

[SincereCorgi]

The people who think they're playing great live and only choke in front of the recording machine should try taping their live shows. It's eye-opening.

[JeffD]

I'm still putting my finger on the vinyl for my slow down program and you want me to learn multitrack recording tecnniques!

I learned more than a few tunes that way. On the turn table my parents had it took something like $2.75 in quarters to slow it down to the point where the tone was a fifth low. Then I would learn the tune a string down, and then work on it a string up. Old show tunes, soundtrack albums, things my parents had.

[Jesse Harmon]

That's true for sure. Actually I have made simple tape recordings for years as a learning tool to keep myself honest,or at least as honest as I want to be. That and the metronome are the best tools you can get for waking up.

[Jesse Harmon]

I don't think I had that many quarters so my technique was a little less high tech than yours. I think the last one I remember doing was Bill Doggets "Honky Tonk" which brought me no end of fame with the local girls back in the 1950's.

[Jesse Harmon]

I reread this whole thread to pick up all the tips on editing. I have to admit to negative feelings about perfection created through software and studio recording. I would rather hear the best you can do in one take than know that, this section was recorded on Feb 23 and that section Was done on March 3 of 2011. Or that the musicians were not even in the same country besides doing the recording on different days. I am less of a severe critic of live performance than many, and when I hear mistakes it makes me realize the difficulty and work of learning and performing music and the courage it takes to give it a give it a shot in front of a audience. The creation of perfect recordings sets up impossible standards for performance. I think they should be stamped in large letters "Done With Training Wheels". I realize much of my opinion is probably influenced by the fact that I don't know how to use the software. I guess I better have my morning coffee before I get on the cafe. Before I loose my "rant" though let me also put in a word about having to listen to the same studio musicians on every recording, regardless of how good they are. I recently lost my interest and respect for a young player who trashed her own young musicians for a bunch of studio hacks. I will leave off now and be all sweetness and light in a minute. Getting old is really tough.

[Bertram Henze]

I would rather hear the best you can do in one take than know that, this section was recorded on Feb 23 and that section Was done on March 3 of 2011.

That is the purpose in most of my recordings. I want to be able to play this stuff in a session, naked of technology, where you get one "take" per tune per evening, and then it's under the influence of a pint of Guinness. "Practise like you are performing" is good advice, so "record like you are performing" can't be so bad either.

[foldedpath]

I reread this whole thread to pick up all the tips on editing. I have to admit to negative feelings about perfection created through software and studio recording. I would rather hear the best you can do in one take than know that, this section was recorded on Feb 23 and that section Was done on March 3 of 2011. Or that the musicians were not even in the same country besides doing the recording on different days.

I understand the aesthetic objections, but that doesn't describe how the process is usually done. Modern pop music production can involve that kind of thing, but for the more "acoustic" formats like Classical, Folk, Bluegrass, Celtic, etc., we're talking mostly about taking the best elements of multiple takes during a single day's recording session. Or more likely, just within a single hour for that one tune. It's very hard to match things like individual phrase insertions if the mic position has changed, or the musician is feeling fresh vs. tired.

The final edit is like sitting in the same room with the performer, hearing them go through a tune maybe a dozen times, and remembering just the best parts while you mentally suppress the clams. That's what we tend to do when listening to live performance anyway.

I am less of a severe critic of live performance than many, and when I hear mistakes it makes me realize the difficulty and work of learning and performing music and the courage it takes to give it a give it a shot in front of a audience. The creation of perfect recordings sets up impossible standards for performance.

Well, for better or worse, the modern music industry has trained audiences to expect to hear music without blatant clams, except in a live concert recording (and even those are frequently edited before you hear them). You may have a few recordings in your music collection without digital editing, but I'll wager the vast majority of studio albums you own, include a fair amount of editing.

The ability to do slice 'n dice editing allows some projects to happen that wouldn't be possible otherwise, especially for groups of musicians where schedules aren't easily synchronized, and they can't afford to hang out in a barn for months to continually record until they get perfect takes. If it allows some recording projects to capture great music that wouldn't happen otherwise, it's not a bad thing in my book.

[JeffD]

I have to admit to negative feelings about perfection created through software and studio recording.

I have come around on this. I feel funny about it, and I don't care for, all the fixes, the post processing effects, sweeteners or what ever else that one can add.

I used to joke, how about you record me playing each note on the mandolin clearly and cleanly, and then you edit all that together into a killer version of Rawhide.

But I have come around to this extent - when you are recording, the record (mp3, CD, whatever) is the product. It is not a recording of the product, it is the product.

Your playing is just one many things that goes into making the product, just like the other recorded tracts or the effects or the editing. It all is part of what goes into making that piece of art called the recording.

So with that in mind I say make it a good product, be tasteful in editing and whatever, warm it up with reverb if you think you need to, bump up the talent factor if you can, and that's that. If someone wants to hear how I sound in person, they can call me.

[JeffD]

Goodness, I never realized when I made the OP that there were so many of us were recording challenged! IF I had this much trouble chewing gum and walking, I'd be a walking accident! lol

I think it has to do with wanting to sound great. When I really care about how I sound and I want it to come out right, either with a recording or a performance, that's when the nerves kick in and my grip tightens and I screw it up. At least for me that's how it is.

[bratsche]

Jeff, I think it's about just sounding decent, not great. When I'm recording, I don't feel nervous at all, but I screw it up a lot anyway, often in inexplicable ways that I don't even screw it up when playing in front of people, when I may (or may not) have a case of nerves to contend with. Sometimes I screw up in the first measure when trying to record, when I'm as calm as can be, no elevated heartbeat, no sweaty palms or tight grip. (Alcohol never even enters the picture, just to get that straight, since it's been mentioned, and I don't even want it to while I'm recording myself!) But it's an experience like dealing with a sudden case of stuttering, or something. Really weird.

bratsche

[foldedpath]

I have come around on this. I feel funny about it, and I don't care for, all the fixes, the post processing effects, sweeteners or what ever else that one can add.

I used to joke, how about you record me playing each note on the mandolin clearly and cleanly, and then you edit all that together into a killer version of Rawhide.

But I have come around to this extent - when you are recording, the record (mp3, CD, whatever) is the product. It is not a recording of the product, it is the product.

Your playing is just one many things that goes into making the product, just like the other recorded tracts or the effects or the editing. It all is part of what goes into making that piece of art called the recording.

So with that in mind I say make it a good product, be tasteful in editing and whatever, warm it up with reverb if you think you need to, bump up the talent factor if you can, and that's that. If someone wants to hear how I sound in person, they can call me.

That's a good perspective, I think. Another side of this is whether you're recording for yourself and friends, maybe something for a Facebook page... or whether it's something you intend to sell as a CD or online download, or use as promotional material for a band. Those lines often get blurred in these recording discussions on the Cafe, and it's where one normally shifts from a documentary mindset into something with a more professional focus on what you're trying to deliver to an audience.

The commercial approach can be taken too far, and often is. I try to avoid the worst of it by having duos and larger groups record together, live in the room, sans headphones or click tracks. But actual clams? Yeah, I'll fix those if I can. And I'll use EQ and light compression in the mix, if I think it helps it sound more like a pro recording.

Microphones and speakers aren't brains and ears, so it's all aural fakery in the end. The trick is to keep the Wizard firmly behind the curtain, if you can.

[rubydubyr]

I reread this whole thread to pick up all the tips on editing. I have to admit to negative feelings about perfection created through software and studio recording. I would rather hear the best you can do in one take than know that, this section was recorded on Feb 23 and that section Was done on March 3 of 2011. Or that the musicians were not even in the same country besides doing the recording on different days. I am less of a severe critic of live performance than many, and when I hear mistakes it makes me realize the difficulty and work of learning and performing music and the courage it takes to give it a give it a shot in front of a audience. The creation of perfect recordings sets up impossible standards for performance. I think they should be stamped in large letters "Done With Training Wheels". I realize much of my opinion is probably influenced by the fact that I don't know how to use the software. I guess I better have my morning coffee before I get on the cafe. Before I loose my "rant" though let me also put in a word about having to listen to the same studio musicians on every recording, regardless of how good they are. I recently lost my interest and respect for a young player who trashed her own young musicians for a bunch of studio hacks. I will leave off now and be all sweetness and light in a minute. Getting old is really tough.

how about the best I can do on take 1,378? because that is probably how many takes it is gonna.... umm, take.....

[rubydubyr]

If someone wants to hear how I sound in person, they can call me.

lol

[Jesse Harmon]

I used to ski with a guy who said if you never fall you are not testing the limits of your own possibilities. What about the perspective that if you are just always shooting for a technically perfect performance you may be missing the the edge of your own unrealized potential. Many an imperfect performance turns out to be more exciting and entertaining than a recording mastered by producers and the consensus of a group. Just an opinion, I do appreciate all the formidable tech knowledge here and I've learned a lot. I just think for my own satisfaction I am better off spending my time on the various instruments I play than on perfecting my recording capabilities. If you are dubbing that much you just need more time on the instrument. As a record of my playing I would feel a little funny if I couldn't come fairly close to the recording in playing live. As to enhancing the quality of sound I have no issues.

[JeffD]

I think that recording and performing are similar, if not the same, when it comes to nerves or stage fright or what ever keeps us from being our best at that moment.

Yet that is the excitement, right? I mean if you didn't care, if you weren't scared (skeeirt) then there would also be no excitement, no fun, no adrenalin rush. The difference between excitement and fear is just what you are expecting. If you are worried about screwing up and not sounding as good as you know you can be, then its fear. If you are excited about showing them your stuff and finally getting it documented that you can kick it when you want to, well then its excitement.

In either case, since you cannot predict the future, you are both right.

[foldedpath]

I used to ski with a guy who said if you never fall you are not testing the limits of your own possibilities. What about the perspective that if you are just always shooting for a technically perfect performance you may be missing the the edge of your own unrealized potential. Many an imperfect performance turns out to be more exciting and entertaining than a recording mastered by producers and the consensus of a group. Just an opinion, I do appreciate all the formidable tech knowledge here and I've learned a lot.

I understand what you're saying, but I think it's more relevant to live concert recordings and not studio albums.

When I pay money for a studio recording -- and I actually pay for all my online music purchases and offshore CD's -- I don't want to hear someone hitting an unintentional wrong note, or flubbing an intro or outro. Not to put too fine a point on it, but that's what separates the pros from the amateurs.

I just think for my own satisfaction I am better off spending my time on the various instruments I play than on perfecting my recording capabilities. If you are dubbing that much you just need more time on the instrument. As a record of my playing I would feel a little funny if I couldn't come fairly close to the recording in playing live. As to enhancing the quality of sound I have no issues.

If you're recording yourself, you can take any approach you want. This whole business of "perfection" editing really comes to the fore when you're putting your professional reputation as a musician on the line, for judgement by the wider world. Or when you have two or more people in the project trying to work together, where editing can save the day when just one person in the group screws up, and everyone else is creating a perfect take.

If you want to show people what you can do when a recorder isn't running, well, that's what a live concert is for.