How to make your child not succeed at music

[Ellen T]

I went to grade school in the 1950s and early 1960s, and we did not have a band option until 5th grade. The music departments in our junior and high schools were excellent, though, and I know of several people who became professional musicians. My mother was very anti-band; it wasn't until years later that I realized that because she is non-musical, she did not want my sister or me involved in something over which she had no control. My sister joined the band right away and it was a constant fight until she graduated from high school. She was pretty good, but has seldom done much with music in her adult life. I was in band for about three years, more as a social thing at that time, and since I didn't want all the parental conflict, I finally gave in and quit. Strangely, my parents bought me musical instruments after that, including my first mandolin. I'm still confused about that situation. I have kept up with playing but on a very amateur, hobbyist level just for myself. So, do mixed messages in the past result in enjoying playing but hating performing?

[Petrus]

I played violin in elementary school, had an adequate if uninspired instructor. There was just a handful of us. Got good enough to travel locally with the school orchestra, had my picture in the local paper once at age 10, but I got bored with it. Maybe if the instruction was more inspired, had a greater variety of material to work with, I might've continued my interest. Then the arguments with the parents started, one parent wanting me to continue and the other one saying it should be up to me. They held opposing views about church attendance, with one insisting it was a good and important thing and the other saying it should be up to me. (These views were diametrical to their views on the violin, so one would use the other's position against them in the argument.) So the violin argument may have been a factor in my folks' eventual divorce and my lifelong emotional scarring.

A young "Petrus" with his first guitar, ready for my Grand Ole Opry audition, circa 1970:



In any event, by the time I got into H.S. there either wasn't a band or I wasn't interested enough to pursue it. I played off and on for another thirty odd years before discovering the mandolin. And now you know ... the rest of the story!

[JonZ]

There is a big difference between deciding that your child is going to be a professional musician and deciding that they aren't going to quit music on impulse. Serial quitting is not necessarily everyone's path to finding their passion. Sometimes it just becomes a habit that prevents success at anything.

Consider that my kids are teenagers now, and have tried dozens of activities. They had plenty of opportunity to pursue those activities and become passionate about them. The one that they are actually passionate about--music--they occasionally wanted to quit. One kid is also a pretty good basketball player, but chose music over basketball when offered a scholarship. The other one loves math and science as much as music, but he would have also quit those subjects in fourth grade, if given the choice.

Now with other kids, in different contexts, I might have let them quit. But it is not unreasonable for a parent to say "stick with it for six more months, and see if you change your mind". Seven year olds do not actually always make the best decisions. Kids are different, and you need to know your kid, and parent accordingly.

[Bertram Henze]

A young "Petrus" with his first guitar, ready for my Grand Ole Opry audition, circa 1970:

Young Petrus looks brave enough to face whatever life may have in store (a music store, of course), and already equipped with wisdom about helpful and less helpful arguments (which the less wise among us have to attend the Cafe to learn)...

[JonZ]

Who isn't brave when they strap on a six-shooter?

[journeybear]

The easiest way is to never give your child an instrument. If somehow one turns up in the child's possession, do not arrange for lessons. If somehow he or she gets lessons on his or her own or teaches himself or herself how to play, never offer any encouragement or compliment. In fact, if you want to put any effort into this, now would be the time to offer insults, disparaging remarks, and numerous mentions at every opportunity of what a pointless pursuit and waste of time music is. If the child has any common sense he or she will eventually see the wisdom of your views and give up, turning instead to an adequately productive life of humdrum activities. You will have spared him countless episodes of humiliation, embarrassment, and frustration from the multitudes who know the truth about these things - that music comes from a radio, a CD, a download, an iPod, not an instrument.

It's so easy. Just say, "No!"

[yankees1]

Better known as the Nine Commandments of Mandolin Playing

[Paul Statman]

As a mandolinist on the younger side, it's incredible how many kids I know who play hours a day of violin or piano -- and they don't enjoy it one bit.

Many people don't recognize that music isn't about being good or making money. It's about expressing yourself creatively and enjoying it.

Nuff sed.

[Randi Gormley]

there were certainly enough parents in my recall who didn't mind music but hated the music their kids were making -- and I'm not talking about learning how to play, say, the fiddle/violin or banjo. Both my husband and I grew up in households that believed in music -- and we play in our house most days, but none of our kids can stand the music we play, familiarity breeding contempt, apparently. So while they turn up their noses at Irish traditional music, they do gravitate to music in general and have a clear understanding of where music comes from since they all played instruments growing up and our youngest played harp all though college. So I guess we're lucky in that!

[SincereCorgi]

The easiest way is to never give your child an instrument...

Naw, the best way is to order a $100 unplayable Chinese import off Amazon and then keep insisting that it's 'good enough for a beginner', and that if they excel on it you'll buy them a better one. It's a good catch, that Catch-22.

[Gandalfa]

My sister-in-law really wants her grandson to learn to play his deceased grandfathers banjo. It's under the bed, just waiting. The grandson is almost ten, never listens to music or plays music at Grandma's house, and she never brings it out. I offered very basic piano lessons, but they only brought him once. He is not always available due to a divorce, but there is no effort at all to work on music. When they come to my house he loves to play with my old mandolin, or the piano, or the recorder. I hope we can instill a little music, but he will probably get that banjo when he's 18 or so.

[Bertram Henze]

The easiest way is to never give your child an instrument. If somehow one turns up in the child's possession, do not arrange for lessons. If somehow he or she gets lessons on his or her own or teaches himself or herself how to play, never offer any encouragement or compliment. In fact, if you want to put any effort into this, now would be the time to offer insults, disparaging remarks, and numerous mentions at every opportunity of what a pointless pursuit and waste of time music is.

Sounds like a recipe for making a master builder thinking out of the box, creating new instruments and playing them, being immune to stage fright and becoming a living legend. The only persons the selfmade superstar will never again consider meeting are his parents, i.e. you.

[Paul Statman]

Poor young Tiny Tim could play a wonderful fiddle, but sadly he starved to death, and all because of my penny-pinching ways.

You crack me up, OldSausage!

[Jeff Mando]

Interesting thread and nostalgic for me. My parents wanted us both to play an instrument. My sister got piano lessons, me, the guitar. Not to offend, but this was 50 years ago, so ..... Anyway, my sister got the 80 year old "old maid" teacher who called her "missy" (not her name) and held an erect ruler as a warning to keep her hands in the "tent" position and not flat. Keep in mind this was a common way back then to teach an 8 year old not to develop bad habits. (heck, I even remember it and I can't play piano!) Hopefully, most of these Nazi style teachers have retired by now.....me, on the other hand, at 9 years old was taking lessons from a 17 year old who wore Beatle boots and played a big orange Gretsch Chet Atkins guitar. He played in a band and worked at a guitar shop. (again, the 60's....) No, I wasn't gifted, and no, I didn't practice 12 hours a day, but I did stick with it over the years and played in a bunch of bands and had fun. I don't know if my sister has played in the last 30 years, but I'm sure she could if she wanted to....different methods, different strokes

[Charlieshafer]

I disagree with everyone here. Not because everyone or anyone is wrong, but because there is no one way to raise a kid to love music. You may think you know, but you don't know. Every kid is different, every parent is different, every household is different. Some need a push, some don't. Some will try anything, some are afraid of anything. Some have a natural ability to stay focused, some will try something for a short bit and quit. None of these characteristics in any way, shape, or form dictates whether or not a kid will love music, love playing, or not love playing. Anyone saying they were "scarred for life" were never meant for that pursuit, anyway. Any thoughts towards music as a profession are misguided. It might work out, but probably won't. I know more than a few completely unemployed music majors with master's degrees in performance. I know just as many semi-amateur hackers who are having a great time playing for $20 a night with their band at some local pub.

Music in schools is less relevant than many would like to think. Having worked with districts which have beefed up or slimmed down their budgets or offerings, I find that it's the whole community environment which matters, home town and school combined. If folks are surrounded by music throughout the day (well, save at work or in math classes, of course) then music will matter, in varying degrees to various people.

I've seen some monster kids players come through a system very close to what the o.p. described as the "wrong way" and love playing al through college and their adult life, even dragging their kids to our workshops and jams.

That's about the only thing that bothers me about threads like this; it's easy to get judgmental when, like pretty much everything else in life, unless it violates the laws of physics, just about everything works.

[Sterling]

Best post of the century. Thank you!

Lee Turner

[Petrus]

That's about the only thing that bothers me about threads like this; it's easy to get judgmental when, like pretty much everything else in life, unless it violates the laws of physics, just about everything works.

Yeah but some things work better than others. For instance, the Suzuki method of musical pedagogy (which I was not taught) comes pretty well recommended. You can probably learn to play the mando with mittens on but it's easier if you take 'em off.

[rubydubyr]

"That's about the only thing that bothers me about threads like this; it's easy to get judgmental when, like pretty much everything else in life, unless it violates the laws of physics, just about everything works. "

SERIOUSLY, Charlie??????? Other than this, I am not going to comment on your judgmental viewpoint and outlook. Have a good day and Merry Christmas.

[Bernie Daniel]

SERIOUSLY, Charlie??????? Other than this, I am not going to comment on your judgmental viewpoint and outlook. Have a good day and Merry Christmas.

Why is Charlie's post any more "judgmental" than your original post?

His opinion is different that's all. I thought many of the scenarios you described initially were a tab on the over-the-top side?

His point that all kid's are different and so they will respond to different incentives or inducements is spot on.

[catmandu2]

I disagree with everyone here...

Surely there is some commonality?

The aspects you mention are all tenet of a "child-centered" approach--the big paradigm. JonZ pointed out the efficacy of following the child's needs (the constellation of particular intrapersonal variables that may influence the child's relative disposition to learning, among other things), flexing and accommodating as needed

Another way of saying it - there is no teaching anyone anything (implying that, ultimately, it is we who teach ourselves--everything; the instructor facilitates the learner in the acquisition of knowledge/skills, etc ), etc

I agree--the broader context of music comprising many sources and experiences--its relevance--may likely be conducive to the persistent relationship with music..

[rubydubyr]

The easiest way is to never give your child an instrument. If somehow one turns up in the child's possession, do not arrange for lessons. If somehow he or she gets lessons on his or her own or teaches himself or herself how to play, never offer any encouragement or compliment. In fact, if you want to put any effort into this, now would be the time to offer insults, disparaging remarks, and numerous mentions at every opportunity of what a pointless pursuit and waste of time music is. If the child has any common sense he or she will eventually see the wisdom of your views and give up, turning instead to an adequately productive life of humdrum activities. You will have spared him countless episodes of humiliation, embarrassment, and frustration from the multitudes who know the truth about these things - that music comes from a radio, a CD, a download, an iPod, not an instrument.

It's so easy. Just say, "No!"

OMG, you are too funny!

[rubydubyr]

Why is Charlie's post any more "judgmental" than your original post?

His opinion is different that's all. I thought many of the scenarios you described initially were a tab on the over-the-top side?

His point that all kid's are different and so they will respond to different incentives or inducements is spot on.

I appreciate your viewpoint, but it wasn't over the top..... true experience, and that was not even the entire picture.

[Petrus]

"Can we just agree to disagree?"
"No!"

[Bertram Henze]

Love of music cannot be killed, it can only be delayed. Those of us with a sad story will admit that they eventually arrived at playing an instrument the way they want it, or else we wouldn't be here to post. There is just that feeling that it could have happened a lot sooner if only...
But there is no way of proving that, of course - we have gone our road and other roads are others' roads.

[mrmando]

Ron Thomason describes the hillbilly approach to music education thusly:

"My parents just put all the instruments in a corner and told us kids, 'Don't mess with them instruments.'"