Requesting input about Collings MFO and MF5O and other ovals.

[werbel]

I would appreciate feedback/reviews of the Collings MFO and MF05 models. I play OT and Celtic and have often been told that the well projecting bluegrass sound of my F9 and Collings MT is "hard" "thin" etc., while the sweeter tone of my Morris F4 and Gibson A1 cannot be heard above the banjos and fiddles. I love all of the afore-mentioned instruments--please don't think I am dissing them-- but I am looking for an oval hole with a bit more projection and a little more wood in the sound. I'm wondering about the Collings ovals, or possibly a Gibson F2 with a truss rod or F4. Or any other suggestions. I do prefer an "F" model. Thank you.

[Tom Coletti]

Not sure what you mean by "wood in the sound," but a lot of ovals can have a lot of projection; it's just a matter of finding the right one. It does sound like a "hybrid" F4 could fit the bill, such as Webers, Breedloves, etc. with longer necks that join at the 15th-fret, though there are some who are concerned that the bridge is too close to the soundhole for proper vibration or stability. The Collings MF-O/MF5-OV is a bit of a compromise, with a 13th-fret neck joint instead of the standard 12th fret joint for a traditional F4, and it sounds nice from the various online demos, a balance between sweetness and punch.

--Tom

[werbel]

Thank you, Tom!

[darylcrisp]

Julie

I am by no means an expert or long term player regarding mandolins having only started with this instrument around 10 months ago.

I will offer up thoughts I have formed after looking for "the one" over the summer.

I have been around quite a few Weber mandolins, F styles and A, in the satin finish and Gloss nitro finish. What I found for myself was a more crystalline type note quality with all the Gloss finish Webers. All the satin finish seemed to have that more woody tone
Likewise for a Pava all satin finish A that I had for a while(I have not played a gloss top Pava).

I took a 2 day trip and searched out and played a lot of instruments, mostly F style as that was what I was more interested in at the time-with a specific aim towards the Collings brand. All the Collings I played on this trip were Adi topped mandolins. I found that I really liked the build quality and feel, but the sound was a bit too "harsh" to my liking. Came home, and was slightly disappointed. Found an Engelmann top Collings MT at TejonMusic and they sent me a soundclip. I immediately found the woody clear note quality I had in my head. I made a trade and the MT arrived and was all I expected it to be and more. This was satin finish top/back/sides.

A short time later, I saw an Engelmann top MT oval hole, had a soundclip sent, the owner told me it was actually quite loud and felt it was louder than most F holes. It arrived and I found it to be excellent as well. This oval hole has a gloss top with satin finish back/sides. To my ears, with the same GHS strings that my MT wears, the note quality is sweetly rounded but can be loud and hold its own-it doesn't break up played hard, still carries a deep woody note quality.

I do wonder if the "loudness" I hear is due to the oval hole being near me as the player. I have only heard it once played by someone else(and compared with my MT which carries a very muscular projection, it sounded as loud if not louder), while standing out front a couple feet.

Gathering all this in a totally unscientific study, my thoughts would guide me towards a MFO with Engelmann top and satin finish top/back/sides. I think you would get the tone and projection, yet capture that deeper woody earthy sound.

Hope that helps, and if you do get one, let me know your thoughts. I've thought often that if I ever get a MF, I would probably go with an Engelmann top even if I had to special order-I'm that convinced of the tone difference(along with the satin finish).

d

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hi Julie - I had exactly what you're looking for about 4 years ago - a Weber Oval hole 'Beartooth' "A" style. Unfortunately it turned out to have a warped neck,so i traded it in for another "F" style,otherwise i would never have parted with it. It's still one of the loudest, 'woodiest' toned mandolins i've heard. 'Used' ones do come onto the market at times,so maybe a search on the 'net might throw one up at a dealers. Weber also make a number of other Oval hole models that might fit the bill.
You could maybe have a look at & hopefully get your hands on a Pava "A" style. Ok,they're not oval holes,but my recently acquired Ellis "A" style is as 'woody' as you'd ever wish for. I've reason to believe from reading the posts of the folks on here who own a Pava,that they're as good as the Ellis 'proper' mandolins,& paired with the right string set (Tom Ellis recommends GHS A270's), a Pava might suit you fine,
Ivan
Photo.courtesy of TAMCO UK. My Beartooth back on sale after being repaired. It sold !.

[hank]

Julie, not to contradict any previous suggestions but projection and what I think of as a cutting voice treasured by the Grassers is mostly in the realm of F hole design. That is the very reason it was added to Gibson's 1920's top of the line models and advertised as a revolutionary improvement in mandolin volume and projecting tone. The very best ones have the smoothness(sweetness) of an oval for their voice but still cut. I've never encountered an oval hole mandolin that could do this only F hole mandolins. The thing your looking for is an F hole with a less harsh , more balanced sweet voicing than what you have now. This is no easy task but they do exist but to the best of my experience your looking in the wrong place with any oval hole design. I love my 23 F4 but consider her a parlor mandolin. To my way of thinking I don't want a loud cutting voice playing at home when I'm not alone and am trying to not be abrasive to non enthusiast listeners.
Many may not agree with me and know of new hybrid examples I'm not familiar with but as a general rule if your playing in a group without amplification oval holes can't be heard.

[Donzen]

I'd like to chime in here....I have two splendid mandolins; an F-style and an O-style. Both built for me by Peter Sawchyn in Canada over 10 years ago.

First I got his custom F-style built for me.....I thought it magnificent! Then about a year later I decided to do the proper MAS thing again and ordered another mandolin from him...but this time an Oval, with a lot of custom stuff. Including a McIntyre installed pickup. When I got that Oval, my F-style took up primary residence in its case.....where it is now and kinda is my "O well, I gotta play it occasionally" to justify the investment. This Oval is everything I can ever want.....and, as an aside, I rarely use an amp! It has great power, sound and sustain .

I see no situation where the F-style "out shines" the Oval. Hands down, I prefer the oval for dynamics, power and tonal quality. I doubt I would ever buy an F again.....but hey!, I got a great sounding Oval and a very nice F.
Hope this is of some help....Don

All in all - I gotta say that

[Donzen]

PS....to my previous post and to Werbel.......

The oval I have from Peter Sawchyn is his Oval with the fancy Scroll like a typical F-style mandolin. So, u can get an F-"looking" type oval from him. I think he designates it his "O2" mandolin.

And a great plus for u ....is, u r in Washington state. He's in Saskatchewan Canada.....check out his web site....something like Sawchyn guitars....
Nfi...whatsoever, just a very content owner of 2 great Sawchyn mandolins......Don

[werbel]

Thank you, again for all of your thoughtful responses. Despite my expressed interest an oval hole, I tried out a Collings MF5 and found it excellent for my needs and acquired it. This, after playing many instruments and much consideration. While an "F hole" mandolin, this Collings does not have the "thin" or "hard" sound of my F-9. Your input about oval hole mandolins as well as technical and anecdotal information helped tremendously. The Gibson F-9 will be consigned where hopefully it will find a happy home with a dedicated practitioner of bluegrass.

[jim simpson]

Congrats on your MF5, I've owned mine for less than a month so far. I'm really enjoying it!

[hank]

Congratulations Julie on your new Collings. Donzen thanks for giving me a heads up on what your oval hole can do. That's the great thing about mandolins, you just never know when your gonna be blown away by one of them. When I play one that feels like an extention of my hands and mind oozing sustain, responding and rebounding like a human voice, I have to remind myself to pay attention to things like volume and tone. Once the most important qualities now trumped by ease of play and response.

[Mark Christensen]

Glad you found an F5 that works for you, I do have an MF-O and it's really a fine sounding oval. I think these Collings ovals are under rated, I've had a few old ovals over the years and I don't think I'd trade back for them if I had to give the Collings up. Woody, rich sustain, comfortable to play, not as tubby sounding as a short neck oval. The A and E strings are loud enough to hurt your ears if you dig in on mine. There's one for sale in Boston at the shop that sponsors here on the Cafe. The video they have is a good representation of the tone they produce. They don't make a lot of these so they're harder to find. Great Mandolin in my humble opinion.

[Tomando]

I've had good experiences with Collings f hole mandos, but an MT oval I once owned had a real uneven response on the E string. 3 different luthiers, including Colling in house people, did not solve it. It's gone now. I recently acquire a Weber Bitterroot florentine oval, (from Kyle at The Mando Shop: (great guy, great pricing!). I LOVE it!!! Definitely a contender in the reasonably priced oval arena!

[BBarton]

I echo Donzen's comments -- I too have a Sawchyn A-oval hole (his RA-2) and a "hybrid" F-oval hole (his 02-C). They're both wonderful, well-made instruments -- great balance and tone, and both project well. I think the F-oval style has a "sweeter" sound, but overall I like the A for what I mostly play (Celtic). That said, I have a friend with a Collings MF5 who plays strictly Celtic style, and loves it.

[red7flag]

For the past 4+ months, until my Ellis arrived earlier this week, I have been without an F5 for the first time that I remember. When I went to jams I took what I had, the Hester F4. This is a short neck oval. I had plenty of projection with my leads. If there was an area of weakness, it would be the chop chords. They just do not pop. But, the instrument is not designed to pop. While not perfectly satisfying for bluegrass, it was certainly adequate. Now that the Ellis is here, it will stay home during bluegrass jams. But, will take the place of the Ellis for Old Tymey and Irish jams.

[Bob Clark]

I love my Weber Vintage A, which is an oval. I've had it for about four years and it's a great instrument in every way; looks, quality of construction, and its wonderful sound. Can't say enough good about it!

[yankees1]

A short neck Old Wave produces a great sound .

[Mandobar]

I have a variety of Collings mandolins, oval, f-hole, oval hole, etc. If you raise the action on the oval holes a bit you can get by in a jam chunkin' chop chords (I've done this quite a few times). You will also get more volume with higher action. IMHO, if you are going to get an oval hole Collings, you will get more overtones and sustain if the top is engelmann or with an adi top you spring for varnish. Collings also has a limited supply of Italian spruce. I am waiting on a varnished MT2 with birdseye and Italian spruce.