Can you give a newbie some tips?

[Ganondorf]

Hi. I'm new to the forum and new to mandolin. My goal is to be able to play Celtic/Irish/Scottish tunes by ear or sheet music. I know that goal is pretty lofty, right? So, I'm kind of a self-teacher right now. I don't have money for lessons in the near future, and I know very little. When I look for learning resources online I notice a lot of missing information. Even after so much searching and learning, I still feel lost when I actually pull out my instrument to practice. Maybe you players here can answer some straightforward questions that I have, or just post some links for me. I know that some of this information can be found on the web, but there is a huge difference between reading a generalized tutorial and having a specific question answered directly by real people. I hope you understand. Here are my questions:

1. How do I know when to pick up and when to pick down?
2. How do you get to where you can pluck both strings of a course well and clear without bumping the other strings next to it?
2. Which fingers should I use for each fret, or each string? For example: should I use my pinky for the E strings and my index finger for the G strings? Do I use a given finger for all strings of a given fret and not for any other fret?
3. When I pick should I use my elbow or my wrist or a combination of both?
4. Should I rest my right pinky on the sound box while I play? How about my right forearm - should it be touching the instrument or do I hold it slightly away from it?
5. What are some good exercises that I can do to build my basic strength, muscle memory, and proficiency? I once heard a guitar teacher say that you should just work your way down the frets and back up again with each finger, plucking up-down-up-down each time you fret a string, then move to the next string. Other teachers say you should just practice jumping from chord to chord. Strum one chord, then quickly switch and strum another, etc. But I just don't know. What worked for you?
5. This last question is more general. Are there any self-taughts out there who have hit their goals? What advice or tips or guidance can you give me?

Thanks to anyone who responds. I really appreciate it.

[JeffD]

These will help.

http://www.petimarpress.com/mandolin...%20videos.html

[UsuallyPickin]

1. Learn both open and closed position chords and scales and arpeggios.
2. Take lessons from a mandolin player / teacher not someone that just teaches mandolin.
3. Get a 1.2mm or thicker pick.
4. Keep a loose wrist and fingers. If you don't drop the pick occasionally you are gripping it too tight. Watch a video od Tim O'Brien.
5. Hold your pick at 90' to the side of your thumb.
6. Do a lot of active ,with mandolin in hand, and passive, while doing other things , listening to mandolin players.
7. Learn fiddle tunes. THen learn to play them in odd keys.Not to befuddle your wife but to really learn the fingerboard.
8. Find a jam to play with folks. It's the best way to dive in to playing.
9. Start practicing tremolo and crosspicking early opn. Right hand control is crucial to tone production as well as keeping your play interesting.
10. If you don't already know basic music theory learn it. It will help you evolve as a mandolinist and as a musician.

[Hany Hayek]

The videos links that Jeff sent you will definitely help, but I'll try to answer your questions as much as I can.
I can't talk about playing by ear as I rarely do, I would suggest you start by reading music.
I am self taught and have been playing for around 2 and a half years but was playing the violin (classical) when I was younger.

1. Start by playing down strokes only until you are sure you are plucking the 2 strings and don't hear these individually. When you get to that point start down-up strokes, very slowly at first and increase that speed as you get more confident. Patterns you have to study that later after you are getting a clear sound from your down-up strokes
2. When you do a down stroke you have to end up touching the next string (most tutorials will tell you that). When you'll master the down stroke you'll probably no longer be hitting the next string. This will come with practice.
2. Here you have to study some scale to know which finger on which fret. In the first position it is simple. Start with the empty G (G major scale), distances for the major scale are 1 1 1/2 1 1 1 1/2, so G is empty string first finger goes on the 2nd fret (you leave 1 distance) second finger 4th fret (another distance) and third finger on the 5th fret (1/2 distance). At this point your pinky is still weak but you can still use it on the 7th fret to play D sound. This is a violin exercise do it up and down all the strings. This will help you a lot.
3. Always use your wrist and very very little elbow motion.
4. Don't rest your pinky on the soundboard - your forearm should be touching the instrument.

As I said I am self-taught, all I can say keep trying and don't give up easily or get frustrated, it will take you from a couple of weeks to a month to start getting a correct sound from your down and up strokes.

[Bertram Henze]

I'll pick a few of the questions here:

1. How do I know when to pick up and when to pick down?

You just pick up down up down and so on, hitting both strings of a course every time.

2. Which fingers should I use for each fret, or each string? For example: should I use my pinky for the E strings and my index finger for the G strings? Do I use a given finger for all strings of a given fret and not for any other fret?

You use your fingers like a violinist, i.e. index for frets 1,2, middle for frets 3,4, ring for frets 5,6, pinky for fret 7. This applies for melody playing on all strings. When fretting 4-finger chords, you'll use the index for G and the others following just as they fit best.

4. Should I rest my right pinky on the sound box while I play? How about my right forearm - should it be touching the instrument or do I hold it slightly away from it?

The instrument should be in a stable position while playing, i.e. the right forearm clamps the body in place. Use a strap to hold the neck in place, not the left hand. As for the right pinky - some like to use it as a reference of position, but it should just brush the top slightly, if at all, not be firmly planted since this would limit hand motion.

[Gelsenbury]

Your goal is lofty, but achievable. Folk music is great because it's not about who's the best player or who has the best instrument. It's about joining in, having a go, sharing the music, and having fun. Try to play with others as soon as you can, which will probably be sooner than you feel ready. A slow session would be ideal.

Several of your questions underline the importance of right-hand (maybe I should say picking hand, in case you play left-handed) technique. It will be a good use of your time to warm up playing open strings or random fretted notes, and focus on the picking hand. Focus on how to play both strings of each course. See how you can achieve good fluidity of wrist movement. Consider economy of movement, which will help you play cleanly and get faster later on.

A good exercise recommended by Simon Mayor is to warm up by alternating up- and down-strokes on an open string and fretted notes on an adjacent string. If you manage a fluid, regular sound where both the open string and the fretted string sound clean, you are doing well.

[Martin Jonas]

All good advice. If you're not going to take lessons, I would strongly recommend that you at least get a good solid book -- I'm particularly fond of Simon Mayor's "The Mandolin Tutor", which is what I used myself when I started to play mandolin about twelve years ago. It's available directly from his web site:

http://www.mandolin.co.uk/books.html

The book is not specific to any single style, but I would say is mostly geared towards Celtic/folk playing rather than either bluegrass or classical, and more towards melody playing than chords/accompaniment. From your posting, that's probably a good match for your own preferences. There's also a second volume "Mastering the Mandolin", which you can progress to once you feel comfortable with everything in the first book. It's quite a steep step up, though. I suggest you don't his "New Celtic Mandolin" book -- while it's very good, it's more about his own very untypical arrangements of Irish tunes rather than playing music like you might hear in a session.

Simon also has a DVD titled "Mandolin Essentials". I haven't used it myself, but if you don't have anybody else around to learn from the DVD would probably be a good addition to use in parallel to the book. There are things that are much easier to pick up by seeing it demonstrated than from a book (or a web site).

Good luck!

Martin

[Randi Gormley]

The majority of celtic session music focuses on melody, so if you're concentrating on that genre, you can put aside learning chords for the nonce. That should help simplify your beginnings. (yes, yes, chords are important, but I've been playing ITM for more than 15 years and only know 3 chords and don't use 'em, certainly not in session). Don't worry about speed in the beginning because speed is entirely dependent on knowing a tune so thoroughly you aren't thinking about it. Celtic music is played sitting down, mostly, so learn how to sit comfortably with your instrument in your lap (strap optional for a lot of ITM players). Mike Marshall's beginner video will show you how to hold the neck, the pick and how to arrange your body sitting down. A lot of bluegrass players like a thick pick the way jazz players like tiny picks -- but ITM players use anything they can hold. Most of the mandolin players I talk with use a medium weight pick with a bit of a point and some use a relatively flimsy pick, using the clicks as percussion (some ITM guitar players favor really lightweight picks for this reason). I use a medium weight jazz pick, myself.


Way back when I was first learning (before the interwebs so I had no Youtube videos to watch), I got a very basic book, Mel Bay's Learn How to Play the Mandolin, that started with single notes and downstrokes and you learned to read music the same time you learned how to fret. He introduced down/up strumming immediately with the first actual piece of music. I once taught a beginner how to play mandolin and she had the hardest time switching from all downstrokes to down/up/down/up so if you can start with down/up, I'd suggest you try. Since you're learning from scratch, you might as well learn the way you'll eventually have to play, so you might as well start right. Don't worry about speed. Play as slowly as you want and concentrate on pick movement, clean fretting and clear tone. And yes, a single finger is responsible for two frets when playing melodies, most of which (in ITM) are played in first position. Your index finger plays notes on the first two frets of any string, your second finger the next two frets, your ring finger the next two frets and so on.

Ear-training/learning by ear is a different skill. It requires you to be really familiar with your instrument and with the patterns that show up a lot in folk music. That all takes time. Once you are comfortable with fretting notes, you can close your eyes and see if you can still fret where you want. If you can still fret cleanly with your eyes closed, try playing something simple like "joy to the world" which is a nice run, or "happy birthday." If you can pick out a tune simply by knowing how it sounds, you've got the very beginning steps of ear training.

Of course, this is all my experience and YMMV

[Mike Arakelian]

Get yourself a copy of Don Julin's Mandolin For Dummies. It will answer a lot of your questions plus many, many more. It's a great reference for most all players...not just newbies.

[DavidKOS]

Good points by everyone...includin all but a tiny bit of the following, namely number 3. Other than that I'd agree with the rest wholeheartedly.:

1. Learn both open and closed position chords and scales and arpeggios.
2. Take lessons from a mandolin player / teacher not someone that just teaches mandolin.
3. Get a 1.2mm or thicker pick.
4. Keep a loose wrist and fingers. If you don't drop the pick occasionally you are gripping it too tight. Watch a video of Tim O'Brien.
5. Hold your pick at 90' to the side of your thumb.
6. Do a lot of active ,with mandolin in hand, and passive, while doing other things , listening to mandolin players.
7. Learn fiddle tunes. THen learn to play them in odd keys.Not to befuddle your wife but to really learn the fingerboard.
8. Find a jam to play with folks. It's the best way to dive in to playing.
9. Start practicing tremolo and crosspicking early on. Right hand control is crucial to tone production as well as keeping your play interesting.
10. If you don't already know basic music theory learn it. It will help you evolve as a mandolinist and as a musician.

I cannot agree that a pick that thick is needed. If the pick material is stiff, like tortex or ultex, you can use a.72-.73 and get a fine tone. Of course the current fashion is to use very thick (often rounded) picks and if that is your taste, cool.

But it is not a necessity by those of us that use traditional Italian style picks, made of what was originally tortoiseshell.

Note the thicknesses and shapes of Italian/Classical picks - only some of the Ranieri picks get that thick, and perhaps not at the tip.:

[Bertram Henze]

The choice of pick is not really that important at this stage, IMHO. Any old pick without extremes will do. Nothing too sharp, nothing too thin, too thick. There will come a time of fine-tuning picking skills and tone later, then the gates of Pandora's pick choice will open.

[Ganondorf]

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate your being open and courteous, rather than sending me back to a search engine. I was almost afraid to ask, to be honest. Some online communities are not so friendly to newcomers. This is a lot of good information that I will keep coming back to for a while. And I do plan to get some lessons when I can afford it. There is a local teacher where I live, but mandolin is something that he does as an aside to his main focus -- acoustic guitar, so I'm not really sure how much he'd be able to help with the nuances of this instrument. Randi Gormley, you were correct in assuming the kind of style I seek to play. Melody is fantastic to hear on these instruments. To be honest, I want to bump up to octave mandolin for the deeper sound, eventually. For now I figure that there is much more learning material available for standard mandolin, so it would be a better place to start. From what I've learned around the webs, the transition from mandolin to OM is relatively smooth once your fingers get used to the extra lengths. Anyway, I have plenty on my plate for now. Thank you all so much.

[Mike Steadfast-Ward]

Get yourself a copy of Don Julin's Mandolin For Dummies. It will answer a lot of your questions plus many, many more. It's a great reference for most all players...not just newbies.

MA has said it and I agree Don Julins books (both of them) Mandolin for Dummies and Mandolin Exercises for Dummies are a great help both have audio files available for them on the net this is a great aid too.

[Ganondorf]

I just downloaded Mandolin for Dummies yesterday, and already I am loving it. Mandolin Exercises for Dummies will probably be next. They author uses very accessible language and he's got a good sense of humor. His rundown of the mandolin family was especially interesting. Who knew that there were once mandolins the size of cellos wandering the earth? Also, I have found another instructor in town who charges a very reasonable fee, so I might get lessons after all.