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Thread: Northfield finish issues ?

  1. #1
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    Default Northfield finish issues ?

    I've noticed a few used Northfields for sale recently, and it seems that a number of the older ones have finish issues. Anyone know when this problem got corrected? I have a late 2013 Big Mon with a beautiful finish that has held up to extreme use.

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    Default Re: Northfield finish issues ?

    I believe that Northfield has taken steps to improve the durability of their finish. One step is that they have gone to a satin finish instead of a gloss. You may want to contact Adrian directly for his explanation.

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    Registered User sblock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Northfield finish issues ?

    Quote Originally Posted by yankees1 View Post
    I believe that Northfield has taken steps to improve the durability of their finish. One step is that they have gone to a satin finish instead of a gloss. You may want to contact Adrian directly for his explanation.
    Are you asking a question about the VARNISH finish found on the NF-5M models (now called their "Master Models"), or the NITRO (nitrocellulose) finish found on the more recently introduced, and lower-cost, "S" series models, the NF-5S? And what do you mean by "older" ones? Older than when? 2011? 2012? 2013?

  4. #4
    Registered User Charles Andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Northfield finish issues ?

    The 2010 Master Model Northfield currently in the classifieds looks like it has some heavy wear in the pickguard area and the armrest area. Not sure that translates into finish issue.

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    Registered User sblock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Northfield finish issues ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Andre View Post
    The 2010 Master Model Northfield currently in the classifieds looks like it has some heavy wear in the pickguard area and the armrest area. Not sure that translates into finish issue.
    No, that is a finish problem --- extreme wear likely caused by pinkie posting or scratching from fingernails or picks -- but is it not a finish issue.

    That is, there is no evidence of there being anything wrong with the way that the mandolin was finished: no crazing/cracking, flaking, separation, fading, bubbling, and so on.

    Let us not confuse human-induced wear with a finish issue.

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  7. #6

    Default Re: Northfield finish issues ?

    I've had my F5M for two years. No problems so far. Looks like the day I got it.

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    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Northfield finish issues ?

    Mine is also a couple of years old. Perfectly OK. Finish is as durable as you would expect on a spirit varnished instrument.
    Gibson F5 'Harvey' Fern, Gibson F5 'Derrington' Fern
    Distressed Silverangel F 'Esmerelda' aka 'Maxx'
    Northfield Big Mon #127
    Ellis F5 Special #288
    '39 & '45 D-18's, 1950 D-28.

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  10. #8
    Registered User Geno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Northfield finish issues ?

    I got a beautiful new Big Mon F5 in August. Within a couple weeks it developed several pea-sized milky spots on the front and back despite being kept in a climate controlled environment. At first I thought maybe I had just drooled on the mandolin because it sounded so good and played so well. I had no luck trying to clean it off with a slightly damp cloth. Therefore, I assumed that it was probably water vapor trapped under the surface of the finish. I waited, hoping the spots would just go away by themselves, but they didn't. Not long ago, I contacted Northfield, and to their credit, they immediately offered to re-finish my mandolin, even though I did not ask them to do this. However, I declined their offer because I simply did not want to give up my mandolin for the time it would take to correct what is only a minor annoyance. Somewhere (maybe here) I had heard of a simple technique that sometimes can fix blushing in spirit varnish finishes. You simply use your bare thumb or finger and vigorously rub back and forth on the spot for 30 seconds or so. In theory, the friction creates just the right amount of heat to evaporate the water vapor without doing any damage to the finish. Is this even physically possible? Well, I tried it on a few spots on the back and amazingly, it worked like a charm. Maybe the spots will come back, but right now I can't even tell where they were. Can one of our experts provide an actual scientific explanation for this and further advise if it is merely a temporary fix, and really as harmless as it seems?

  11. #9
    Registered User sblock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Northfield finish issues ?

    Be glad it worked! Vigorous finger rubbing produce BOTH high local pressure and high local temperature in the area where the water is trapped. The cloudiness, or "milkiness" you saw was due to Tyndall scattering by microscopic droplets of water trapped in (or under) the finish. If you're interested, you can read about the physics of Tyndall scattering here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyndall_effect.

    Anyway, the heat from the hand rubbing raises the vapor pressure of the trapped water. It's not enough to boil it, but it is enough to cause the tiny droplets to begin to evaporate. Under the extra pressure, this newly-evaporated (but not released!) water is then directly resorbed by the underlying wood or by the finish itself. But when you stop the rubbing and the mandolin surface cools, the evaporated water (a gas) then condenses. Only this time, the trapped water droplets that nucleate and re-form are even SMALLER, and they do Rayleigh scattering (see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_scattering). These tiny droplets therefore do not generate the "milky" effect.

    However, if the water is truly trapped inside the finish and has nowhere to go, the tiny trapped Rayleigh-sized droplets can sometimes coalesce and form back into larger, Tyndall-sized droplets, at which point the cloudiness will return. But if rubbing worked for you the first time, then rubbing a second time will probably make the cloudiness go away again, unless there is some new source of moisture coming from the wood or the environment.

    I hope this explains the physics a bit better to you. You DID ask....
    Last edited by sblock; Oct-18-2014 at 6:14pm.

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  13. #10

    Default Re: Northfield finish issues ?

    My NF F5M is a 2011 model. The varnished surface is a bit on the soft side and more easily marred than a nitro finish would be.
    Other than that, the finish is still perfect.

  14. #11
    Registered User Geno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Northfield finish issues ?

    Thanks for the information sblock and yes, I am nerd enough to find this all very interesting. I think Northfield is doing everything they can to achieve the highest possible consistency with what can be a very finicky type of finish. They tell me that they are looking at trying longer curing periods, different types of curing methods, introducing other resins into their varnish, and using oil varnish as a top coat. My impression is that there are still issues with their finish that occur more often than they would like them to, but they seem very committed to solving this without compromising the tone that they want their instruments to be known for. I respect that philosophy and have found that the instruments I buy are usually the ones that seem to have it all- the look, the tone, and the playability. The instruments I keep, that become my favorites, are the ones that sound and play the best. I think my Northfield is a keeper, despite the finish imperfections.

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    Mando-Afflicted lflngpicker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Northfield finish issues ?

    The more I play my KM-1000 and J Bovier A5 Special the more the sweep marks develop on the surface. This happens more when I am performing and singing. I naturally want to project more and get more hand sweeping motion while playing out. Both mandolins scratch, particularly the Kentucky. It has something to do with the style of my playing and I enjoy these beautiful imports though they are getting signs of wear. Most disappointing is the tiny chips in the stain in the F hole edges -- I feel that the price of truly enjoying these instruments is the wear from modest gigging as opposed to keeping them in the nice HS Cases. I like resale value, but I bought these two instruments because of their sound and playability, rather than the durability of their nitro finishes. Am I delusional?
    2014 BRW F5 #114
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    Loarcutus of MandoBorg DataNick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Northfield finish issues ?

    I wouldn't say so Dan! Keep pickin, singin, and enjoyin your mandos Bro!
    1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed


    "Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
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    "I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
    "Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
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  18. #14
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    Default Re: Northfield finish issues ?

    Thanks Nick. That means a lot coming from you. Have a good evening, my friend.
    2014 BRW F5 #114
    2022 Kentucky KM 950 Master Model

    YouTube Original Recording of My composition "Closer Walk"

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