Theory/compostion/terminology forums?

[mandocrucian]

Any recommendations for a good theory/composition forum? I am lacking terminology to describe some of the devices/techniques/structures that I am using in writing new 'stuff' (a surprising amount totally or partially via flute.) I've been looking through Slonimsky's Lectionary of Music, Harvard Concise Dictionary of Music and Russo's Jazz Composition & Orchestration and am coming up empty handed.

while I am posting... here are a few of these items lacking proper terms, in any knows what to label them as:

• Term for 'tunes' based upon 3-measure units rather than the usual 2-bar or 4-bar phrasing. Structurally, this gives one sections that are 6, 9, 12 or other multiples of 3 in length.
• Term for a short 2 or 3 bar phrase/cadence tacked on the end of a part (may be be a repeat or variant of the last essential bit of the section).
• Redefining the position of the first measure of a progression. (I don't think that rhythmic shift (though that's what it is) is the best term.)

Example: ||: A | A G | D | D :|| (which can generate these hidden secondary progressions)

||:A G | D | D | A :||

||: D | D | A | A G :||

||: D | A | A G | D :||

• Recarving the meter of the bar lines of a progression so that the internal phrasing becomes totally different

4/4||A / / / | D / / / |Bm / / / | E / / / | A / / / |. . . . . .

3/2 ||A / / / D / | D / Bm / / / | E / / / A / | A / . . . . . .

Niles H

[dhbailey]

There is no special term for the phrasing lengths in different numbers of bars. Just as there is no name for a song with 2-bar or 4-bar phrasing. They're all just songs or compositions. No name of a type of composition (rondo, sonata-allegro, waltz, minuet, etc.) defines the phrase lengths.

A short 2 or 3 bar phrase/cadence tacked on the end of a part is usually called the "coda" in classical music discussions, and often referred to as a "tag" in more pop music discussions.

I've never heard of a term for what your describe as "redefining the position of the first measure of a progression" -- that needs to be written out, in which case it's simply a new progression.

Your last point is usually called "changing the meter" and again needs to be written out.

There is a lot in music theory and composition which doesn't have names to put with it.

I'm sorry I can't point you to a single web-site to help with music theory questions.

[mandocrucian]

I've never heard of a term for what your describe as "redefining the position of the first measure of a progression" -- that needs to be written out, in which case it's simply a new progression.

In some African music, the tune is thought of as circular, rather than linear (with a beginning and end). It's more like a clock. While the master bar/cycle line is at 12, instruments can come in at various places and their cycle may start at 3, or 6... A jazz soloist could do the same thing while the rhythm section still plays the "original progression (cycle)", and if the soloist is good, before long, the listener will adjust to hearing things through his reference point/cycle. Like in the Simpsons "Bart vs Lisa hockey episode" where one side of the stadium is chanting "Bart, Kill!" and the other (pro-Lisa) side is simultaneously yelling "Kill Bart".

I suppose superimposing a new 3/2 meter/phrasing while the rhythm section is still in a 4/4 groove would fall under the general idea of polyrhythm, but not as it is usually applied.

The ethnomusicologist faction seem to have some $10 descriptive term for everything, so that even simple musical stuff sounds as intelligible as a lawyers speaking legalese. (But sometimes some of that terminology comes in useful).

[SincereCorgi]

Your system where the harmony is operating on a different cycle than the phrases reminds me a little bit of colore and talea in medieval composition, terms that were later used for similar concepts in the works of composers like Messiaen. In those, the cyclic displacement of the rhythm and pitch interactions create very interesting melodic effects. It's not quite the same thing, but it's sort of in the same conceptual family.