Not quite satisfied with my Washburn M-3SW/TS

[sacausey]

Ok, so a few things to get out of the way first: 1) I'm relatively new to the mandolin world. Only been playing for a bit over a year or so, but I've played guitar for a very long time and have a well developed ear when it comes to recognizing differences in tone. 2) I know that as a newish player, my weakness are going to make any instrument sound worse than it would in the hands of a more experienced player.

Those things recognized, I'm not 100% satisfied with the sound I'm getting out of my Washburn M-3SW/TS. I find that the sound is a little thin and sometimes a little to metallic for my liking. I guess what I'm looking for is something with a little more resonance, volume and a sweeter (not harsh) top end.

Will something like a J.Bovier F5 or an Eastman 315 get me improvement in those areas, or are they all going to have similar qualities given that they are budget model imports?

I've been looking at upgrading for a while but putting it off because I found that with more practice, I could get the thing to sound better, but I think I may have hit a point where it's worth it to get a better instrument. I don't really have any business looking at anything above the $1200 mark.

[CWRoyds]

I am no mando expert.
I bought my first mandolin about a month ago, but I have many instruments and know what a good tone is.
When I went to look for a mandolin to buy, most of the cheaper instruments I played sounded thin and metallic.
I ended up buying a Gretsch New Yorker because compared to the others it had a more rounded tone.
The Gretsch was a couple hundred bucks, but it sounded better than the ones I tried up to about $600.
BUT then again I did not know anything and had not played a really nice Mandolin to compare it to.
The gretsch was fun to noodle around on, but I started to realize the tone was a bit boxy and clunky.
BUT it was cheap so what did I expect.

Fast forward to last week, I bought a J Bovier F5 Special of Craigslist.
The instant I strummed a chord my face lit up.
I realized what I had been missing.
My JB F5 sounds amazing.
It is rich and full, and sounds like an F5 is supposed to sound.
Awesomeness.
I am extremely happy with the JB, and for the price they are an amazing deal.
I figure you would have to spend MUCH more for a superior tone.

Having said that, when I bought my JB F5 the seller let me try his new Breedlove mandolin.
I think it was like $4,500, and looked like a shiny jewel.
It was an amazing thing, and the tone and playability was like butter.
I did not play it for too long, as it was addictive and I don't need to take out a mortgage for a mandolin.
I accepted that an instrument that cost five times as much should be somewhat better in tone.

I would say it was not THAT much better that I did not like the JB F5 anymore.
It just showed me the possibilities.
I bet if the seller played a $10,000 Gibson F5 he might feel the same thing about his Breedlove.

I would highly recommend a J Bovier F5 Special.
Freaking amazingly beautiful to look at, to listen to, and to play.
I could not be more happy.
The Gretsch may never get played again.
There just is no point.

Here are some pics of my new mandolin just for reference.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3w5twpnqi...UDZDhF1qvkhHra

[Bob Clark]

Hello Sacausey,

While buying a new mandolin might be the right move for you at this time, here's something else to consider. Before making the switch to a different mandolin, why not try to make some minor changes to see if this one can be improved? I would recommend you try different strings. Specifically, I would try flat-wound strings. These may give a little sweeter tone on your instrument. Even if you don't like flat-wounds, different brands can make major changes in how your instrument sounds.

I would also try different picks. For a sweeter, less harsh tone, I would try thicker, more rounded picks. I particularly recommend the JazzMando ProPlec picks you can purchase here: http://jazzmando.com/jazzmando_picks.shtml

Maybe you have tried these two inexpensive changes, but if not, you might be surprised at the extent to which they can change your mandolin's tone. If you do decide to buy a different mandolin, have fun with the search! It can be a great adventure.

Best wishes, Bob

[Ellen T]

Definitely try different picks. If I had used a thin pick the first time I played, I would have hurled the mandolin right out the window, I hate that harsh, metallic sound so much. I can use anything from medium to extra-heavy (I just use cheap Fenders) and get a good sound. I play soft-type music usually, so for me, the really thick picks clatter on the strings too much, but if you are going for volume, they might not be a problem for you.

[Richard58]

If u go to buy something else, try b4 u buy...

[jim_n_virginia]

Get a professional setup and buy a Toneguard. Start saving for a Flatiron.

[sacausey]

Get a professional setup and buy a Toneguard. Start saving for a Flatiron.

So what constitutes a Flatiron? Do you mean the brand or the style?

I'm not familiar with the terminology yet.

[mandroid]

It's a Brand Name now .. others like theirs of other brands.

[George R. Lane]

I would look at a used Kentucky KM1000. They are well respected and you should be able to find one in the 1k range. Most sub $500 mandos will sound thin and metallic. Good luck on your search.

[avaldes]

I started on a "The Loar" 520 and have nothing negative to say about it. I got a J Bovier F5 Special in May 2013, but it was a 2012 model. Jeff changes factories now and then, so the current F5 may be from a different supplier. I got it from Kyle at the Mando Shop, and it was well packed for shipping. Both Jeff (J Bovier is his Frenchified name) and Kyle (owner of the Mando Shop) answered all my questions, and I got a pro setup, which you might not get on an eBay purchase. I have been very satisfied with the instrument, and have played more expensive instruments that did not sound as good.
I would not go for a Tonegard or other upgrades on your Washburn. Well, at least the Tonegard is removable for your eventual upgrade instruments, and people think it improves the tone of even very good mandolins.
With respect to Richard, I would "try before you buy" if possible, but where I am, finding a decent selection of mandolins and price ranges is probably a 6 hour drive or more. I bought sight-unseen online from Kyle, but like I said, I thought he and Jeff were great to deal with (NFI). So much so that I am thinking of a Bovier A5 Tradition from Kyle as a second mandolin. Even sight unseen, I would guess that is the best sounding mandolin you can get right now for under $500. And people on this forum will tell you that in terms of tone per dollar, get an A style.
Here is the Bovier:

[sacausey]

I ordered the ProPlec pics tonight. Probably going to be placing an order for a toneguard soon. Just to clarify, a toneguard that fits my F style washburn will probably fit most F styles, right?

[CWRoyds]

I did some experimenting with the advice from above with my own mandolin, just to see what I could do to make it even better.

I changed my strings from 0.10 to 0.11.
The difference was astounding.
My mandolin sounds about 1/4 louder and more clear.
Whatever you do, try out a slightly heavier string.
You won't believe the difference it makes.
I thought it would make my mandolin harder to play, but it actually made it much easier.
AND it tunes more easily and stays in tune much better.

I also tried a bunch of different picks, and found that my favorite was a 3mm big stubby.
I have used the Big Stubby 3mm for decades, so maybe that is why I like it, but it is really loud and clear.
Although I just got a Bluechip CT50 pick and it is pretty amazing.
I might be switching to that pick, although it is a bit thin for my taste.

Heavier strings is the way to go.
At least that was the result of my experimentation

[Martin Jonas]

While there are always personal preferences in choice of mandolins, the Washburn M-3SW is a decent mid-level solid wood import mandolin and the other imports mentioned above are not a clear step up. As others have said, before looking at a different mandolin I would explore whether changes in setup, equipment and (in particular) technique get you closer to the sound you're looking for.

I used to have a Washburn M-3SW, and the tone and playability were really nice once I had homed in on the best setup for my personal style -- there certainly was nothing at all metallic or harsh about it. This was, however, a late 1980s model which probably is quite different from the current one. On that one, I found that the tone was transformed when I changed the stock bridge for a Cumberland Acoustics bridge. Other changes you can try are string gauge (J74 is the default for most players, but some prefer to go heavier to J75 or to flatwounds such as Thomastik), pick choice, pick hold and picking technique. In my experience, players with a guitar background often find it hard to adapt to a different picking technique that is more optimised for mandolins. These choices are all very personal -- lots of players prefer very thick picks, 3mm or so, but it's a complete mystery to me how they get any sort of tone with them. I use a 1mm Wegen pick with J74 or similar strings on carved mandolins.

Martin

[High Lonesome Valley]

Bridge, bridge, bridge. Here's a link where the vendor gives detailed explanations on different bridges. Not meant as spam, I don't even know the guy, I'll build my own if I need to, but maybe give it a try.

I think yours is an adjustable bridge, the more mass the more death to warm mids. Might consider hollowing out the top saddle portion, very common on tailpiece jazz guitars.

I know on the banjo bridges I've made, a change of density of wood that contacts each string, overlaid on a maple bridge, will affect the sound of each individual string, denser=brighter, less dense=warmer.

http://www.murphymethod.com/index.cf...t&contentId=87

[treidm]

Speaking of the bridge, it may need fitting to the top plate
The contact made from the bridge to the top will affect the tone and sound overall, greatly

I have one (It was my first owned mandolin) and early on, mine needed bridge fitting
I went ahead and bought a better bridge and had it fitted and a proper setup done
Was amazing the difference that made
Couple that with the right strings and a good pick and all was better
Not perfect, but WAY better

You'll never get truly awesome sound IMO because the graduations and general thickness on top plate on the Washburns, are just a tad thick....
Well, mine is a 1993, so maybe your year could be different

If you make sure the bridge is fitting correctly, get a pro setup, find strings and a pick that works, you won't need to buy another right now, unless you need a bluegrass canon
You could then start saving up for a bigger step up, next time

Mine has been a wonderful servant with pretty darn good sound and great playability but volume wise it can't keep up with stronger mandolins, but for softer to medium playing it has a very sweet tone [Since it was the one I started on, I still have it]

[rcc56]

I've been playing mandolin since 1980. Guitar way longer than that. I've been teaching and repairing instruments for almost 30 years.
Current Washburn mandolins do not impress me. Nor do the low end Eastmans. I have not played a Bovier mandolin.

Last year, I acquired an older Eastman 505 [a mid-grade] instrument in a trade. I touched up some minor finish damage, then set it up. It didn't require much adjustment. I sold it for $500. Although it was not the type of mandolin I prefer to play [I like oval hole mandolins], I was pleasantly impressed with it. The bottom line is that it was good enough to gig with, and quite a bit better than many of the old Gibson A-50's that it was loosely modeled after. I haven't played a new mid to upper grade Eastman [model levels 500 to 800] in a couple of years, but if nothing has changed, I would consider them a safe bet. But I don't think that a 315 would be an improvement over what you have now.

I have not played a current issue mid to upper grade Kentucky, but they are well spoken of by a lot of people. They are said to be making a better instrument than they were 10 years ago. However, Kentucky has just instituted a significant price increase.

The better quality imports are much better than they used to be. But the cheap ones are still, well-- cheap-- ok to get started on, but not very satisfying once you get your sea legs. If you are willing to spend $700 new for an A model, you can get a pretty good instrument from Eastman or Kentucky. They are probably going to be better than most other imports in the same price range. If you want an F model, you'll have to come up with a couple hundred dollars more.

Also bear in mind that you can get a plain model oval hole Gibson A in very good condition starting at about $1200. The fancier models [A-3, A-4] will cost quite a bit more. Most of these old Gibsons will benefit from a refret with modern fret wire, so if you go that direction, budget some extra money for a good fret job. People pay extra for the so-called "snake head" models, and tell you that they are better, but I don't think there's really any difference. Others will dispute me on this, but I've played hundreds of the old Gibsons and I'm sticking to my story.

But don't order an old oval hole Gibson until you've played a few. They are different, and you might like them, or you might not.

The more mandolins you can play, the better. Eastman and Kentucky are probably the best imports in the $700 to $1200 range. Collings mandolins are very good instruments, but they cost quite a bit more.

I see you are in Florida. Take a long weekend, gas up your car, and drive to Nashville. There are more mandolins there than you can shake a stick at. You'll learn a lot more about mandolins in a day than you'll ever learn from your computer screen. It's a long drive, but do-able.

[Martin Jonas]

This is a four year-old thread -- the OP is likely to have made his decision by now.

Martin

[treidm]

I'm sure the OP is done with this, but....
If I had similar question in my mind and was trying to research subject, I would appreciate any further comments that might be helpful, even if the thread was old

I luv this place, from a learning standpoint

[Br1ck]

You can do a lot to improve the tone and playability of an inexpensive import, but in the end you will have a nice mandolin to take camping. If you are willing to spend $1200 and shop used, a master series Kentucky can be had in an F style. If you can live with an A style, a bit of patience can get you a mandolin with serious tone. This is the kind of instrument where after going into a nice shop and playing a few sub $5000 mandolins, you can walk out knowing that while very nice, they aren't much better that what you own.

That is a very good feeling, one I had after taking my Silverangel in for an adjustment. Got to play it side by side with mandolins like a Northfield Big Mon and a Collings MF, and a slew of nice A styles. At that point it becomes different flavors of good.

In the end I needed to have a scroll, yes had to have one, so I built a kit. A Kentucky, while very good just didn't quite do it for me. Now the wild card is how a Kentucky would sound played in. Never have had the chance. Never seen a used Kentucky master series in a store. That may tell you something.