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Thread: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet music.

  1. #501
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandophile View Post
    Who knows! I'd have to investigate the provenance. Never trust chord symbols--they just can't reflect the voicing intended
    by the composer (and especially those composers who excelled as pianists and teachers of the piano). Both Maestros Gioč and Canoro were wonderful pianists.
    Yeah, I've run into that before on printed sheet music.

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  3. #502
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    Quote Originally Posted by napochan View Post
    My grandparents came from Sicily, so I'm not surprised I chose a composer representative of that region! My uncles and cousins would bring out the mandolins and guitars at many family gatherings when I was growing up so rediscovering this music has been a joy for me.
    Well, I have the Sicilian grandparents but I did not have the family "bring out the mandolins and guitars" - that would have been wonderful!

    Welcome to the forum.

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  5. #503

    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    You've heard the old saying "too many cooks spoil the broth" ? Well, that certainly could apply in the case many of these marked up M1 parts with chord notations written in above the various measures . Much of what is in the Dropbox are scans of original editions that formed much of my grandfather's extensive Italian musical library. Over the years so many musicians and students used this sheet music and took liberties they should not have by adding in chord notations since they were not able or comfortable enough in following the actual guitar parts as printed . In cases where a particular guitar part may have been lost for years, I can sort of see them serving as a very basic aid---- but in no case will they ever suffice--or be comparable to the composer's original guitar part composition !
    Its sad but I also see and have many mando editions reprinted in the 40s and early 50s where chord notations have actually been printed above the actual notes in the measures by the publishers themselves!
    An indication to me that by that time many guitarists were preferring more and more to follow these printed notations, tab, and the like, instead reading the actual musical measures as the composer had written them.

    In an effort to scan, clean-up, restore what in many cases are brittle, yellowed, and crumbling sheet music in its last leg-- and close to 100yrs of age or more, I did not have the time to "white out"--or remove or correct the various chord markings as I would have liked--- and for this I apologize.

    Our aim over the last few years was to get out to the world as much of this rare--- largely unavailable music out to the world again to be studied, played, and enjoyed. It has truly been a team effort in so many ways---but as Sheri and I have said many times, it has been a labor of love---and truly worth it in every way!

    Hope this helps a bit to explain to everyone the reason for the condition--of much if this sheet music which in the case if the various Philadelphia DeStefano publications date back to the early 1890's.
    A heartfelt thank-you---"grazie di cuore"----to all of you out there who take the time to visit the drop box and to download and to play and to study this beautiful music !

    Happy Holidays to all!--and hopefully in the New Year I will be able to cleanup, restore, and submit to Sheri more of this precious music !
    Normanno Giorno-Calapristi
    Philadelphia PA.

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  7. #504
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    Quote Originally Posted by Musicapralis704 View Post
    .... since they were not able or comfortable enough in following the actual guitar parts as printed

    ......
    An indication to me that by that time many guitarists were preferring more and more to follow these printed notations, tab, and the like, instead reading the actual musical measures as the composer had written them.
    Thank you for your interesting post.

    At the CMSA convention, one informal topic of discussion concerning the Italian style players was about the guitar parts.

    As both a mandolin and guitar player, I have wondered at why the 1st mandolin parts require a certain high degree of chops to play, but the guitar parts are typically rather simple by comparison.

    The printed guitar parts typically have basic chords, in a simple bass-chord (or bass-chord-chord for 3/4) pattern , with few if any of the melodic runs I hear so often in recordings of this sort of music.

    So the question was, did the guitarists play more than was written on those parts? and if so, how, why, etc.

    Another point, compared to the mandolin parts, which are similar to those found in same-time period mandolin method books in terms of difficulty, the guitar parts are much simpler than in contemporary guitar method books.

    Anything you folks have to offer on this topic would be welcome.

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  9. #505

    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    Great question and great musical observation !
    As a young guitarist I used to ask the very same thing to the older accomplished Italian guitarists here in Philadelphia. They would always laugh and tell me that my question was a valid one---and that this style of guitar accompaniment was quite common in Italy--especially the South and that it was best learned by listening to the actual guitarists themselves and to some of the very old recordings of guitarists who employed that style of playing these often unwritten and unpublished "runs"--known as "passaggi "--in Italian.
    My Godfather Joe, great guitarist and another great guitarist Tony Colangelo actually used to write down for me these various "passaggi "---in an effort to get me started, since no modern American guitar method out at the time really could present or teach this style. As with the mandolin--a method even the best, is no substitute for a real teacher !
    These elaborate and intricate "passaggi "---should really only be attempted after one has nailed down-- or mastered the various simpler guitar accompaniment as written .
    It is also worth stating that once this style of adding and improvising the various "passaggi "---a guitarist will rarely play every performance of even the same piece, the exact same way as before.
    It wad also a way for an accomplished or proud guitarist to "stand out"--within the trio or group of mandolinists---in an effort to showcase his capabilities and talent---much in the same way the flamenco guitarists of Southern Spain with each and every "tablao" performance much to the pleasure of the listening audience.
    In any event it is a style worth emulating --while always respecting the actual tempos-- and chord keys within the given sequence of measures you are considering adding any runs or embellishments to. It is definitely one of the components that make this Italian instrumental music genre so beautiful and different and unique.
    Hope this helps explain this tradition and method a bit.

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  11. #506
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    Quote Originally Posted by Musicapralis704 View Post

    As a young guitarist I used to ask the very same thing to the older accomplished Italian guitarists here in Philadelphia. They would always laugh and tell me that my question was a valid one---and that this style of guitar accompaniment was quite common in Italy--especially the South and that it was best learned by listening to the actual guitarists themselves and to some of the very old recordings of guitarists who employed that style of playing these often unwritten and unpublished "runs"--known as "passaggi "--in Italian.
    I guess that's where I heard it, on old recordings. Plus, where I grew up, it was 90% or so Sicilians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musicapralis704 View Post
    My Godfather Joe, great guitarist and another great guitarist Tony Colangelo actually used to write down for me these various "passaggi "---in an effort to get me started, since no modern American guitar method out at the time really could present or teach this style. As with the mandolin--a method even the best, is no substitute for a real teacher !
    These elaborate and intricate "passaggi "---should really only be attempted after one has nailed down-- or mastered the various simpler guitar accompaniment as written .
    As a jazz guitarist (and mandolinist) in New Orleans, some of my guitar teachers loved all the "cheesy" Italian stuff recorded by Italians like Tony Mottola and Al Caiola...as did I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musicapralis704 View Post
    It is also worth stating that once this style of adding and improvising the various "passaggi "---a guitarist will rarely play every performance of even the same piece, the exact same way as before.
    That sure fit in with the jazz aesthetic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musicapralis704 View Post
    In any event it is a style worth emulating --while always respecting the actual tempos-- and chord keys within the given sequence of measures you are considering adding any runs or embellishments to. It is definitely one of the components that make this Italian instrumental music genre so beautiful and different and unique.
    Hope this helps explain this tradition and method a bit.
    When I first moved to CA, I got a lot of work backing up several folk mandolin and organetto players mostly at various wineries; I was assuming I'd play mandolin, but no, they wanted me to play guitar and play rhythm with passaggi.

    Hey, it was fun!

    Still, I would have benefitted from direct study from players in this style. It seems in New Orleans, most of the Italian (Sicilian) musicians were more active in the band style and thus part of the early jazz music scene.

    And there was Louis Prima!

    Anyway, thank you for that post, I really appreciate it.

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  13. #507

    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    Ah, Louie Prima--and Sam Butera and The Witnesses ! !!!!---What musicians and showmen!---Although my 1st love is and always will be--- our beautiful Italian instrumental "ballo liscio"---the music of Louie Prima , his unique New Orleans jazz style with that "Italian"--flair is dear to my heart.!!
    I have many of his old albums and even some old 78rpms that I got hold of from my parents and aunts and uncles collections.

    He used to appear here in Philly back in the 60s at Palumbo's Night Club in South Philly and at the old Latin Casino in nearby Cherry Hill NJ. Even tho underage at the time I used to "manage"--to get in these clubs---to see and hear him. I loved when he would suddenly go into Sicilian dialect ehen the mood hit me with his comical songs. A true showman and "artista"----in the Italian sense of the word. What he used to say in Sicilian he could havr never got away with in English!
    They don't make them that anymore ....!!!!! Glad you enjoyed the post and thanks for mentioning "Luigi"--Prima!

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  15. #508
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    Quote Originally Posted by Musicapralis704 View Post
    Sam Butera and The Witnesses
    !
    Although not direct relatives, those guys are family - they were Metairie (suburb of New Orleans) Sicilians, like my folks. Man, Butera could play!

  16. #509

    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    Ah, Louie Prima--and Sam Butera and The Witnesses ! !!!!---What musicians and showmen!---Although my 1st love is and always will be--- our beautiful Italian instrumental "ballo liscio"---the music of Louie Prima , his unique New Orleans jazz style with that "Italian"--flair is dear to my heart.!!
    I have many of his old albums and even some old 78rpms that I got hold of from my parents and aunts and uncles collections.

    He used to appear here in Philly back in the 60s at Palumbo's Night Club in South Philly and at the old Latin Casino in nearby Cherry Hill NJ. Even tho underage at the time I used to "manage"--to get in these clubs---to see and hear him. I loved when he would suddenly go into Sicilian dialect when the mood hit him-- with his comical songs. A true showman and "artista"----in the Italian sense of the word. What he used to say in Sicilian, he could have ever gotten away with in English!
    They don't make them like that anymore ....!!!!! Glad you enjoyed the post and thanks for mentioning "Luigi"--Prima!

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  18. #510
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    CENTURY PUBLISHING--INDEX is in the folder.
    This is a brand new folder with 21 titles (more on the way)
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nqsw18aai...cB8rnD3--a?dl=

    First, a bit of a history lesson to put this collection in context. Century Music Publishing is greatly distinquished from the Italian mandolin trio tradition in many ways: facile, programmatic music with novelty gimmicks and tastefully composed for the Victorian bourgeoisie. The gavotte is alive and well here!
    Some of the composers' birth dates go back to the early 1800s--IOW--part of the British establishment. These composers enjoyed a remarkable presence in the Chatauqua Adult Education and Lyceum institutions in New England and throughout the United States. The Boston Brahmins loved 'em. Century drew on 'dead white men' composers for the most part. Tried and True: Frederick Crouch, Henry R. Bishop, and Stephen Foster etc. Victorian programs featured these sanitized pieces for the Victorian ladies who functioned as patrons for some of these santioned composers. (yes, I am being a bit harsh but we must draw distinctions where they exisit so that Century's discrete genre is never confused with the Italian mandolin trio dance genre. God Forbid! LOL! Seriously!

    There is another fascinating aspect to this group of Century publications, they are exclusively arranged by one of the most famous multi-instrumentalists who toured the Chatauqua circuit as a featured act in its talent bureau. J.A. Le Barge (c.1860-1924). He traveled with a remarkable accompanist and dazzling pianist Ethel Zimmer (1880-1928). She was a contralto armed with a degree from Ithica Conservatory. Together they were gainfully employed and entertained together for two decades (c.1900-1924). They performed hundreds of times in California, Louisiana, Tennessee, Ohio, Bermuda, et. al., and of course western New York where Chatauquas are still the mainstay of summertime entertainment. Le Barge was a "Mark Twain" entertainer and performed as an impersonator, and he was a polyglot. He was a mandolinist who was featured mainly on banjo, violin, fiddle broom and lots more! The list of his affiliations include Vanderbilt Univ., Manhattan College musical club and numerous other mandolin-based clubs.

    I could say more but have attached files to provide more details.

    Hope your holidays are serene and filled with joy!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lebarge Brochure_text.pdf   Click image for larger version. 

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  20. #511
    Joe B mandopops's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    Yes, very interesting discussion about the Guitar accompiament. As a Mandolin player, I selfishly, didn’t concern myself enough with the Guitarist situation & history. As long as they put the right chords in place, I play on.
    It was interesting that one of the Italian groups I played with in Chicago, we had 2 Guitarists who would alternate on gigs, depending on availability (sometimes both). One was “Classical” style, fingers on gut strings reading the notation. The other “Jazz”, style, pick on steel strings read chord charts. As you might expect, the Jazz guy might include some improvised “fills” or “passaggi (?). This would give the music a different feel depending on which Guitarist was doing the gig.
    Joe B
    Last edited by mandopops; Dec-22-2018 at 10:29am. Reason: Typo
    A Splendid Time is Guaranteed for All

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  22. #512
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    For those of you who've been downloading and playing from the Drop Box archive, now is a great time to order the comprehensive biographical book jam-packed with stories from dozens of mandolin (and later, accordion) publishers. All is revealed in my brand new book "Italian Mandolin Heroes in America." Four years in the making with never seen before photographs of the fabulous musicians and composers and Italian publishers. Cambria, Cerabino, De Stefano, Di Bella, Canoro, Gioč, Gregorio, Leone, Messina, Pettine, Pignoloni, Pagani, Quattrociocche, Tarantola, Tafarella, Tesio and Zampiceni. About 140 musicians are represented with cameos and with in-depth biographies. You will finally be able to fully appreciate their musical contributions and see them as children, husbands, and professional musicians.
    Please support the cafe and visit the top menu, clicking on "CLASSIFIED" then, click on "Other." I've extended a special purchase offer to cafe members and guests--and it will hold true until my birthday--January 23. Happy New Year! I'm preparing to mail lout books very soon. Thank you to everyone! and to Scott Tichenor for bringing together the mandolin world.

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  24. #513
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gxzdfyyqs...Pj8lIlFsa?dl=0

    This link takes you to the Bb (and A) clarinet parts and many other Bb parts that were published as part of the mandolin trio tradition. An update Index is also housed in this link. Make sure you download it so you know what's there.

    I've just uploaded more than a dozen titles (mainly composed by Gaetano M. Messina). He reissued his Messina Italian Dance Band album of 1920s into an updated format with its clarinet parts. For those of you thinking about a larger dance band ensemble, this is exactly what you need to complete the mandolin trio.

    Again, the uploaded Messina Edition Dance Album contains more than a dozen titles. Make sure you download that Edition so you can have access to all these titles.

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  26. #514
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    To be consistent with the mandolin trio archive's titles, in terms of exact corresponding titles, I removed the French title from the Bb -A clarinet INDEX and substituted the Italian title: "Dimentica le Lagrime". You can download the updated Index here or just go to the Band /Bb instrumental drop box folder and you'll see the updated 1/15/2019 Index.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Band_and_Bb_instru._Index_1.15.2019.pdf  

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  28. #515
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    I just uploaded 28 new titles to the "Century" publications along with a complete, updated Index of all the titles that I converted. Most of these titles fall between the Ms and the V. All except one or two are complete trios. Nice to see some classical titles from Mascagni and Verdi (of course!) and also Mendelssohn.
    I've attached the updated "Century" Index to be used to locate these files. Again, please download via the Drop Box folder's link. Thanks and if you see anything askew, let me know.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Century_titles.pdf  

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  30. #516
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    The HEROES arrived. Go to Classified, and click on "Other." Special discount on"Italian Mandolin Heroes in America" expires tomorrow--!

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  32. #517
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandophile View Post
    The HEROES arrived. Go to Classified, and click on "Other." Special discount on"Italian Mandolin Heroes in America" expires tomorrow--!
    I got mine - it looks great and am just beginning reading it. Wonderful.

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  34. #518
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    Yes, there is an anticipated upload of BRAND NEW Italian titles. We're getting them ready. It's been a busy January but things
    are settling out. Appreciate your patience. You won't be disappointed.

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  36. #519
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandophile View Post
    Yes, there is an anticipated upload of BRAND NEW Italian titles. We're getting them ready. It's been a busy January but things
    are settling out. Appreciate your patience. You won't be disappointed.
    Is it possible to put the new items in another folder?

  37. #520
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    probably not a new folder but I will list all the new titles and identify their pubisher. These titles are from our old familiar friends: Tesio, De Stefano etc.
    Does that help you? hope so.

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  39. #521
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandophile View Post
    probably not a new folder but I will list all the new titles and identify their pubisher. These titles are from our old familiar friends: Tesio, De Stefano etc.
    Does that help you? hope so.
    I ain't gonna complain!

    What you do is important!

    I'll just do my usual e-library adjustment to the latest stuff.

    BUT

    let us know about any really cool tunes that aren't in the common repertoire, please.


    and the book is very dense.

  40. #522
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    and the book is very dense.[/QUOTE]

    Some chapters can be easily digested in an evening but you're right many are not only textually dense but with endnotes, I include ancillary comments, references, and sidebars. To me these additional comments illuminate and enhance the text. I chose the "Sabon" font 10.5 for readability. I've already received feedback that it is easy on the eyes.

    As to the new titles, I will note any titles that pop out. Thanks!

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  42. #523
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    I am so new to Mandolin Cafe - my first effort to communicate - so please forgive me if I am violating some protocol. But I truly would love to locate the sheet music for the Gino de Rosa transcription of the Italian Waltz played by Antonio Calsolaro mentioned in this thread. I have tried to find it in all the sheet music in the DropBox. But I just can't seem to locate it. Someone help please - Can't wait to try and learn it! Thank you in advance.

  43. #524
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    I think the title you seek is either "Pioggio di Rosa"? it is a mazurka. send me the link to Calsolaro's performance so I can listen to the melody to be sure.

  44. #525
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    Default Re: Drop Box is now available for Italian 'ballo liscio' sheet mu

    Here's the link to the YouTube video. The date of the reference to it in this thread was April 28, 2015. There was another thread wondering the name of it on Nov 5, 2010. No one knew what it was in that thread.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y883OAj7Ghk

    Thank you!

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