Set List Organization

[John Ritchhart]

I've been told that set list order is important in keeping the audience interested. e.g., the set should alternate fast and slow tunes somewhat and change keys often so the tunes don't all sound the same eventually. Now, my guitar player wants to order the tunes so he doesn't have to re-capo and therefore retune more than once. I'm telling him he needs to get good and fast at it. Is this why bands break up?

[JeffD]

No, bands break up for reasons less important than that.

Too many songs in the same key, or the same tempo, or the same mood, can get tedious. But I think of the three - key, temp, and mood, the key is least noticed by the audience. So if you are staying in the same key, but the second tune is a real contrasting tempo or mood, I think it can work.

I have learned that the first song should be something everyone knows cold that warms the band up and is easy enough to instill confidence. Nothing like that "we can do this" feeling.

[John Ritchhart]

Thanks Jeff. We start with a fairly snappy version of Home Sweet Home. Everyone knows it and playing it fast warms them up. I'll let my guitar player off the hook.

[tree]

What Jeff said.

Variety is indeed the spice of life; we try to vary our set list to maximize audience engagement and interest. We typically begin with something that has some drive, and play the first 2 - 3 songs without dawdling or speaking between songs. Then we engage with the audience, introduce the band, and vary the tempo and feel of the songs from there.

We play some songs with and some without the banjo, but in our experience it is a little more difficult for the banjo player to stay in tune after a key change that the guitar player, so if we can do a couple of songs in a row where he doesn't have to reposition his capos that's a bonus. It's also good to have a couple of a capella songs in your repertoire if your vocals are a strength. Finally, I think shorter is better than longer when it comes to the length of the set, although you don't always have choices there.

[Steve Lavelle]

I agree with everything said above about varying mood, tempo, and key. The group I'm in (Acoustic Therapy) has 4 musicians, and we all sing with varying degrees of success (I can't sing harmony very well, so I tend to sing lead when I sing at all), to further complicate things, 2 of us are constantly changing instruments (Mandolin, banjo, and bass (with occasional harmonica) for me, and my buddy plays, bass, 6 str, and 12 str). I've developed a set list tool in Excel where each row has set#, order#, song title, lead singer,key, what instrument I play, what instrument our other multi-instrumentalist plays. In addition each row is color coded to the lead vocalist. TMI? Well the band likes it, and it makes it real easy to put set lists together.

Our set organization is often influenced by knowing who our audience is. at our small restaurant gigs we often make the first set subdued and steadily increase the energy as the audience grows and eats less and drinks more. On the other hand, we played a gig for a company beer bash on a recent Friday, where I knew that the crowd would be at it's largest and most energetic in the first hour (when everyone was getting free beer and listening to speeches by the bosses) and then taper off rather dramatically as everyone left to start their weekend early. At that gig, we played all high energy uptempo stuff right from the top.

We try to make our sets about 45-50 minutes long (about 11or 12 songs on average)

[KyleG_MandolinMuse]

Our set organization is often influenced by knowing who our audience is. at our small restaurant gigs we often make the first set subdued and steadily increase the energy as the audience grows and eats less and drinks more. On the other hand, we played a gig for a company beer bash on a recent Friday, where I knew that the crowd would be at it's largest and most energetic in the first hour (when everyone was getting free beer and listening to speeches by the bosses) and then taper off rather dramatically as everyone left to start their weekend early. At that gig, we played all high energy uptempo stuff right from the top.

We try to make our sets about 45-50 minutes long (about 11or 12 songs on average)

Great suggestions so far on this thread. I actually attended a music camp where an entire session was devoted to putting together the set-list. The exact details are buried in my notes somewhere, but the lasting impact for me was the importance of thinking ahead about what kind of audience you're entertaining, and planning the set around that information. IIRC, it's advisable to have a song that is familiar, or at least seems familiar either second or third, so that people can sing, hum, clap or stamp along and feel engaged in the music. It's a good reminder for me not to rely on the banter to connect with the crowd, but to connect with them first through the music. Putting the mental work in in advance, preparing for the crowd you're going to have, makes the actual gig more fun.

We have a bluegrass quartet, and whether we're playing at a church function or an outdoor festival, we always put quite a bit of thought into how the set is arranged. Our guitar player generally makes up the sets, and she does so to accommodate capo changes for her and the banjo player. It's important to remember that you often have three pretty standard keys you can play in no matter where the capo is (G,C,D and maybe even A), so there is some room. Often we'll start a show with 4-5 songs back to back and the guitar player never has to change the capo even though we play in 2-3 different keys. Often you can switch back and forth between 2 or 3 keys, along with tempo changes, in a way that changes the sound enough so that it doesn't feel like you're playing in the same key. Even if one of the capo'd players has to change, if you plan in advance you can often arrange the set so that a different instrument kicks off the next song, providing enough time for the quick change with minimal transition time. Often our set lists are organized: 4/5 songs - introduce the band and some of the band members - 1 song that requires non-standard tuning - introduce the rest of the band - 3 songs - banter - 3/4 songs with an instrumental - banter - 1 "light" song - banter - 3/4 songs. This is obviously going to vary depending on the set length, but it's a pretty standard framework. Wherever there is more than 1 song in a row, it's almost entirely without hesitation; maybe a second or two for the applause.

It might be really A-type, but we even provide a rough framework for the "banter" with the crowd. We don't write out jokes, but we do plan in where we're going to introduce the band members, talk about upcoming gigs, promote merchandise, etc. You don't have to script it, but the rough framework keeps you on track while providing enough freedom to really engage with the crowd in a spontaneous and organic way. Also, the rule of thumb in the band is that while the "banter" is happening, everyone else is tuning up for the next song. This is a great topic though. Push that guitar player to be quicker - just have him watch how a professional group does it - and pound out those sets.

What a great topic. I'm interested to hear what others have to say about it.

[foldedpath]

A good set sequence trumps a lazy guitar player, any day.

Unless it's causing major tuning hassles, that should be something any guitar player should be able to handle, without having to force the set order around it. Heck, the DADGAD backers in Irish trad will change capo position in the middle of a set of tunes, without breaking the flow. Maybe your guitar player just needs a better capo? Or more practice...

On set lists in general, I think finding the right sequence of tempo between upbeat and slower songs is more important for audience impact than mixing up keys. But there's still a limit to how many tunes should be in the same key. You don't want a stage show to sound like one of those OldTime jams where the banjo players force the rest of the group to play in one key for an hour, so they don't have to re-tune.

[Tom C]

in a 12-14 song set list, I like to have 2 instrumental and 2 waltzes. Then the balance slow and fast tunes depending on audience.
When we play this Aug 1st, we'll do a lot of Jerry Garcia related tunes.

[SincereCorgi]

You've gotta practice instrument/capo changes. Capos are nothing- theater reed players have to switch between, say, a baritone sax to an oboe with a six measure break sometimes, you just have to get used to changing your mindset and posture quickly. A good exercise for this is to play on one instrument, fixing all your posture and hand angles and so forth to where you want them, then as soon as you're 'good' you switch to the other instrument and do it all over again, back and forth. This is done mainly by wind doublers, but I've used the same approach when switching between mandolin and guitar.

For setlists, we try to balance a lot of musical and practical considerations. For instance, we only do one tune with the guitarist on cornet, so we usually put that one at the start of the second set so that: 1) it's a new sound for the audience that has stuck around past the first set and 2) he doesn't have to worry about warming it up. For a while I tried blocking all my tenor guitar stuff into chunks so I didn't have to change instruments constantly, but I stopped doing it because it's lazy.

Another thing we do is add a few 'emergency' tunes that are easy to throw in in a sidebar, in case a set is running short. I like the idea of marking points to announce the band, pimp the website, etc., since it's so easy to forget that stuff in the moment.

[farmerjones]

A good set sequence trumps a lazy guitar player, any day.

Yep. Just the fact he's grousing about it tells me he's not on the same page as we are.