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Thread: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

  1. #1

    Default Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    Not many posts lately. Maybe still sorting thru Bernie' s video postings.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    I was wondering the same thing.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    They were all at the Mandolin Symposium and still recovering from lack of sleep...

  4. #4
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    I blame the World Cup eating into my practice time...

    For what it's worth, I'm still enjoying my Suzuki 'cello. The D'Addario strings have nicely settled down and I found an old tortoiseshell pick I'd never liked with mandolins but which works really nicely with the mandocello. Just need to get better at reading bass clef now.

    It's nice being able to play the low parts in orchestral arrangements. Here's a recording I made last weekend of an old mandolin orchestra arrangement of the theme from East Of Eden (the James Dean movie), with double-tracked mandocello. The original mandocello part is mostly on the D and A strings and gives a nice growly tremolo, and I've also played the contra bass part on mandocello, mostly on the C and G strings.



    Martin

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    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    I've been out on a road trip. I just posted a few more pics of my 10 string mandocello in progress.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    Kewlish!

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    Registered User Marcus CA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    Maybe there haven't been many posts lately because there is nothing new to post. That sounds like a challenge! We need a great new mandocello album to discuss, a mandocellist's tour schedule, new videos for Bernie's thread. The mandolin world constantly gets those "What's the best mandolin to buy at a certain price point?" and "I can't decide whether to buy a Collings or a Weber" and "I just saw Chris Thile's show last night" threads to keep the action going. Not much of that around here.
    still trying to turn dreams into memories

  8. #8

    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    O.K. , I'll start. How many of you actually own, or play a'cello ? What brand and for how long ? Whst would you different, if you were to buy another ? Maybe we are a real minority.. qualify for assistance from the Feds ? Eastman 805-3 months. I love it !

  9. #9

    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    I currently have a solidbody mandocello I converted from a cheap electric Washburn to see if I liked it.
    Ready to build one for real, and hope to find a cutaway Eastman jazz box to convert for some acoustic archtop action.

  10. #10
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandomonte View Post
    O.K. , I'll start. How many of you actually own, or play a'cello ? What brand and for how long ? Whst would you different, if you were to buy another ? Maybe we are a real minority.. qualify for assistance from the Feds ? Eastman 805-3 months. I love it !
    Not very many mandocellos around -- it's a rather specialised taste.

    Mine is a Suzuki MC-815, which I bought about four months ago.

    Martin

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    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    I agree quite on the mandocello front. I've been on Prince Edward Island the last three weeks so no mandocello -- only took along a mandolin. But while I was gone the solder on the tail piece I made for my Gibson conversion let go. There is a thread on it called "When mandocellos go bang" in the Builder & Repair section if you want to read about the saga.

    Also I finished the The Loar archtop to 5-course mandocello (cittern? lutio?) project and will probably post a video of that after I can get Will Kimble to take a quick look to make sure my set up is OK. He can tell more in 30 secs than I can in three weeks so I value his input.
    Bernie
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    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    Have had an Oakwood mandoloncello for 2.5 months. Not mine, it belongs to the orchestra MOoD.
    Playing three pieces on that at the Sidmouth folk festival where the orchestra will be performing;
    Vivaldi Dmajor Concerto
    Dill Pickles Rag
    River Ockment

    also performing on the '22 Calace;
    Henry Atkinson #187
    Tom's Dance (our very own Mark Woodward's tune arranged by Matt Norman) .

    I'm actually quite stoked that we're playing there because it's a fairly big Folk date on the UK calendar, it puts mandolin orchestras in front of a folk audience who may be players, it does it in a way that makes it look accessible and very much 'of the people' so should generate much interest from people who amy want to do similar if it looks accessible and relaxed.
    Eoin



    "Forget that anyone is listening to you and always listen to yourself" - Fryderyk Chopin

  13. #13

    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    I'm still playing my Larson Brothers mandocello that I've posted pics of before....my quartet just had its last rehearsal today as our first mandolinist is moving to WA next week. I wish I had more opportunities to play my lovely instrument,
    "There are two refuges from the miseries of life--music and cats" Albert Schweitzer

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    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus CA View Post
    The mandolin world constantly gets those "What's the best mandolin to buy at a certain price point?" and "I can't decide whether to buy a Collings or a Weber" and "I just saw Chris Thile's show last night" threads to keep the action going. .
    "action"? ....

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    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jesserules View Post
    "action"? ....

    I think Marcus was wanting topics beyond the "routine"?

    Ok I'll throw this one out there -- hopefully it does do seem too self-serving...

    I recently converted a new The Loar LH-300 arch top guitar into a 5 course mandocello (or maybe the correct name is lutio or cittern) --in any case after I play through a set of strings to make sure it is a solid instrument I intend to offer it of sale with the new Guardian case shown in the pic below. My question is how to come up with a reasonable asking price?

    To break even obviously one would ask for the cost of the guitar plus the cost of the conversion (parts supplies possibly labor) -- but my question is more basic.

    I don't want to discuss just this specific instrument as that might violate posting rules.

    But I am wondering, in theory, for a conversion like this what is the resulting mandocello worth compared to the arch top guitar that it came from? What factors market/supply-demand etc would drive this ratio?

    For example assuming the conversion work is good quality-- so essentially the quality of the instrument is equal the original arch top guitar. Give that how does its value change?

    Certainly a mandocello is more rare than an arch top guitar -- but the demand is less as well. Obviously, the reason I am asking these question is would converting more guitars to mandocello make any sense?

    A bit of historical information the first 1951 Epiphone I converted is now in the hands of what I am told is a happy customer and I would say the price obtained for it was a bit better than a break even situation.

    Just curious how others might see this situation and different views on how the question might be evaluated. Turning this question over to the CBOM jury.
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    Bernie
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  17. #16

    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    Interesting topic, Bernie. And, similarly, I have a guitar-bodied Octave Mandolin that was built as an octave mandolin, but the same builder also builds Arch-top guitars using the same body, AND the same body for a mandocello. So, according to the maker, reslotting the nut and bridge for bigger string gauges and adjusting the relief in the neck now makes this same instrument a Mandocello - see Rozawood website and compare MC-5 and OM-5 - and check out his guitars. I have to wonder, given the rarity of MC's but also the smaller market, which configuration would yield the higher resale value?

  18. #17
    Registered User Marcus CA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    I think Marcus was wanting topics beyond the "routine"?
    That's always nice! However, I was trying to say that there doesn't seem to be as much to write about --- the "action" --- in the mandocello realm. Unless you are ordering a custom 'cello, there aren't too many options to discuss. You're looking at either an Eastman or a flat-bodied Weber. If you are ordering a custom 'cello, then no matter what your price point is, you probably will only find a builder or two at it, and there won't as many people who can speak about his mandocellos as there will be those who can speak about his OM's and/or bouzoukis. As for players, I was saying that in the mandolin world, there is excitement when one of the greats releases a new cd or goes on tour. In the mandocello world, after you talk about what Mike Marshall is doing, the conversation doesn't go much further. So, the challenge is to somehow change that, with more instruments and recordings released into the world.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    I recently converted a new The Loar LH-300 arch top guitar into a 5 course mandocello (or maybe the correct name is lutio or cittern) --in any case after I play through a set of strings to make sure it is a solid instrument I intend to offer it of sale with the new Guardian case shown in the pic below. My question is how to come up with a reasonable asking price? ...

    Certainly a mandocello is more rare than an arch top guitar -- but the demand is less as well. Obviously, the reason I am asking these question is would converting more guitars to mandocello make any sense?

    Turning this question over to the CBOM jury.
    Good luck finding twelve people for that jury!

    In the flattop world, Santa Cruz Guitar Co. has made a few mandocellos out of dreadnought guitar bodies. I don't know how the 'cello price compared with the price of the comparable guitar, though. It might be interesting to check into.

    Lacking much business sense (full disclosure there), I can see putting the Loar up for sale at a price that you would be very happy to get, and then see what happens. Since you're talking about a cittern here, though, that may not give an accurate picture of the world's interest in a converted mandocello. Still, you might get a sense of interest. If there is none, you can lower the price a bit to see whether that makes a difference. I dunno. However, you might have a lot of fun seeing what happens.
    still trying to turn dreams into memories

  19. #18

    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Sheehy View Post
    Interesting topic, Bernie. And, similarly, I have a guitar-bodied Octave Mandolin that was built as an octave mandolin, but the same builder also builds Arch-top guitars using the same body, AND the same body for a mandocello. So, according to the maker, reslotting the nut and bridge for bigger string gauges and adjusting the relief in the neck now makes this same instrument a Mandocello - see Rozawood website and compare MC-5 and OM-5 - and check out his guitars. I have to wonder, given the rarity of MC's but also the smaller market, which configuration would yield the higher resale value?
    I saw your Rozawood on the classified, Eddie. I was SOOO close to taking it. I have one of Roman's ROM2's (2-point OM) and, of the couple hundred, or so instruments I've owned over the years, it's unquestionably in my top 5. I don't doubt your OM5 would sound/play superbly as an OM, or MC. Roman is highly regarded as one of the best guitar builders in Europe. I've had the chance to meet him a couple times. He is a MAJOR Larson Brothers officianado.

  20. #19
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandomonte View Post
    O.K. , I'll start. How many of you actually own, or play a'cello ? What brand and for how long ? Whst would you different, if you were to buy another ? Maybe we are a real minority.. qualify for assistance from the Feds ? Eastman 805-3 months. I love it !
    I currently play an Eastman MDC805. I've had and played it for about four years. I've asked a friend to build an F4 style mandocello for me recently, mainly as his instruments are the best I've ever played in terms of sound, playability and fun factor. Also so I'll have matching F4 mandolin, OM and 'cello. I've always guesstimated there are about 1000 guitar players for every mandolin player (including the overlap from those of us that play both), about 100 mandolin players for every OM player, and probably 100 mandolin players for every mandocello player. There are currently 53.7 mandobass players in captivity worldwide.

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    poor excuse for anything Charlieshafer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    Been playing a Weber custom vintage F 'cello for about 4 years now, and have to say it has taken over the bulk of my playing time (other than classical stuff). The voice it has just makes people's heads spin when they hear that thing in the mix with a bunch of fiddles and mandolins.

    I did the switch to the Thomastik Infeld strings a few months back, and absolutely love them. The standard D'Addarios certainly had the volume and tone, but for me they just had a slightly metallic tone and were a little noisy when sliding around. The T.I.'s are a little softer, so I had to raise the bridge a little, but it's just as easy to play with the slightly higher action.

    As far as music, it's an old-time beast. I've found that the best sound comes when you really get moving on it, and the sustain of the notes played a few seconds ago blend with the notes you're playing now, and it just sounds like an orchestra. I just tell anyone who is giving it a try to make sure they hit lots of open drone strings if possible (and if they work, of course) just to see how much sound they can build up inside the box. Once they get to that tipping point, it's a whole new ballgame.

    Play 'em hard and loud and then they can really sound like something else. That'll get more players..

  22. #21

    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    A local Luther recently converted a brand new Godin ( Pretty sure) archtop to a mandocello. Has built a lot of nice classical guitars and one awesome deadnaught ( first guitar he ever made). He did a very credible job. I tried to buy it, but he wasn't selling, yet. I ended up scoring my used Eastman for $1500. He was thinking of making a few of these priced well below the Eastmans and consequently much less than a Weber. If if had the bucks, I'd go with a Weber f-octave , like Sierra plays. I love my Eastman and am wearing it out, so probably would not sell it. Can't seem to appreciate the flat tops. There just seems to something more awesome bout saying & trying playing a ,"mandocello" We may be few in number, but special and dedicated to our muse.

  23. #22
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlieshafer View Post
    Been playing a Weber custom vintage F 'cello for about 4 years now, and have to say it has taken over the bulk of my playing time (other than classical stuff). The voice it has just makes people's heads spin when they hear that thing in the mix with a bunch of fiddles and mandolins.

    I did the switch to the Thomastik Infeld strings a few months back, and absolutely love them. The standard D'Addarios certainly had the volume and tone, but for me they just had a slightly metallic tone and were a little noisy when sliding around. The T.I.'s are a little softer, so I had to raise the bridge a little, but it's just as easy to play with the slightly higher action.

    As far as music, it's an old-time beast. I've found that the best sound comes when you really get moving on it, and the sustain of the notes played a few seconds ago blend with the notes you're playing now, and it just sounds like an orchestra. I just tell anyone who is giving it a try to make sure they hit lots of open drone strings if possible (and if they work, of course) just to see how much sound they can build up inside the box. Once they get to that tipping point, it's a whole new ballgame.

    Play 'em hard and loud and then they can really sound like something else. That'll get more players..
    Excellent information!! So do you happen to have any YouTube videos of your group? Love to hear your Weber in action as you describe. I am always looking for good tips on how to play the mandocello and it sounds like you have a great groove going.

    As what I have for mandocellos. Well, for starters I am now down to only 3 mandocellos and one cittern (5-course mandocello).

    Te first conversion I made a 1951 Epiphone Zenith arch top is now in the hands now of a player in PA and I have heard (from Mike at Bedford Banjos) that he likes it so that is good.

    I still have a 1940 17" Vega arch top conversion that is just sitting there in its case -- too bad too because it is a monster growler! I will either sell it or add a pick-up to it for a e-mandocello it has the original vintage HS case with it still!

    I am restoring my 1936 Gibson K-1 -- weak top --so it is mostly in the case now.

    My main mandocello is a 1942 Gibson L-50 conversion did last winter (time flies) that I now call a K-50! I try to play it every day but have a lot of degenerative arthritis in my hands and it is by far the hardest instrument to play - and the worst in terms of hand pain!! Bummer.

    Finally I have the new The Loar LH-300 that I made into a 5-course mandocello -- CGDAE. It is a lot of fun to play because you can use your mandolin fingerings to play fiddle tunes on it. Also it plays a little "easier" than a standard mandocello because with 5-courses spread over a guitar fret board the inter-course separations are a little bit less -- and so it seems like you can play faster. I do have little "start up trouble" going directly from mandocello to citten -- takes 30 minutes for me to really adapt to the closer spacings.

    The citten will be on the classifieds one of these days soon with a new case to boot.
    Bernie
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    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    So ... what do you mandocello guys think of blue chip picks?

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    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jesserules View Post
    So ... what do you mandocello guys think of blue chip picks?
    I don't -- I use the "thin" Wegen TF-100's for mandocello -- with those heavy unforgiving strings I like a pick that gives a bit to make sliding from course to course easier and smoother. I have used a BC (TP 60) on mandolin from time to time but I don't find it particularly useful for mandocello.
    Bernie
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    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

    I use the same picks for all - mandolin, mandola, OM and 'cello. A couple blue chips, assorted Wegens, old JD tortex and gators (at least 2.0 mm). My favorite pick these days are by Papa's.

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