How can a Breedlove breed more love?

[pheffernan]

I've been struck lately by the slew of Breedlove Ff mandolins that have not only surfaced at rock bottom prices for solid wood American instruments but have then languished there. Here's one from the classifieds in excellent condition for $1200 shipped: http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/77234. The Eugene (Oregon) Guitar Center has one with a five star rating for $999.99: http://www.guitarcenter.com/Breedlov...27-i3772875.gc. Now Elderly turns up with one in excellent condition which, with their 10% off promotion, would be $886.50: http://elderly.com/vintage/items/90U-6598.htm. I recognize that not everyone is a fan of nontraditional styling, but what does Kim Breedlove have to do to sell his mandolins?

[Timothy S]

I think much as to do with the merger with Two Old Hippies and the blow that it seemed to give to the small-shop reputation of the company. Seems like many folks now look at Breedlove the way they do Taylor. Good instruments, but nothing special anymore to set them apart. My local music shops have significantly slashed their inventory of Breedlove products because they no longer sell. I too have run into this problem trying to unload my instruments. I couldn't find a dealer who was keen on consigning, let alone taking a trade on my custom shop OM. I ended up selling it for well under its value, and I fear the same will happen when I put the FF on the market too.

I'd love to hear what retailers have to say about this. I'm sure there's plenty more in-depth insight lurking around.

[multidon]

The one in the classifieds is the older darker sunburst and actually priced a little high for an instrument you can get new for 1500. The one at GC seems priced just about right and the Elderly one is a real bargain. I would expect that one to get snapped up. I am not a fan of the new lighter sunburst and also notice how relatively plain the back wood is on the Elderly example. My FO was built pre hippie in a natural blond finish they no longer make and it has absolutely killer flame. AAA Perhaps even AAAA. Glad I got it when I did. I'll bet nothing else was changed besides the color and plainer wood. This is a great opportunity for someone to get a nice USA mandolin at a killer price.

[CSIMelissa]

Well as a future Breedlove owner (mine is on layaway) I can say that I'm head over heels in love with my instrument and I did take the time to look at other high end models that cost more before I made a decision. The sky parted and the angels sang when I found my Breedlove, which is a limited edition blonde FF. Only 10 were made.

As for seeing them at rock bottom prices, perhaps they have been marked down because of the new logo that Breedlove introduced? I know before they put the models with the new logo on their web site even they put them on sale at a big discount. Now that they have their mandolins on their web site with the new logo, the sale prices are no longer listed.

I don't know but that's just my theory. I was highly impressed with the quality and sound of my soon to be madolin.

[pheffernan]

I think much as to do with the merger with Two Old Hippies and the blow that it seemed to give to the small-shop reputation of the company.

I'll be interested to hear whether this thought is shared by others, as I was under the impression, perhaps mistakenly, that Breedlove's issues predate the merger.

Seems like many folks now look at Breedlove the way they do Taylor. Good instruments, but nothing special anymore to set them apart.

This comparison also interests me, as there is a lot of cross pollinating between Taylor and Breedlove, yet Taylor obviously doesn't manufacture mandolins. Part of me does wonder whether the Breedloves would sell better if they had Taylor emblazoned on their headstocks.

The one in the classifieds is the older darker sunburst and actually priced a little high

I understand, but that was kind of my point. Name me another carved solid wood F-model mandolin by an established American producer of acoustic instruments that we would describe as priced a little high at an asking price of $1200 OBO.

[LongBlackVeil]

This comparison also interests me, as there is a lot of cross pollinating between Taylor and Breedlove, yet Taylor obviously doesn't manufacture mandolins. Part of me does wonder whether the Breedloves would sell better if they had Taylor emblazoned on their headstocks.

Of course they would, taylor literally puts his name on pallet wood guitars and sells ten of them for 10 grand a pop

[multidon]

I have noticed for some time now a significant anti Breedlove prejudice out there in our rarified little mandolin world. Those who think they are "ain't no part of nothin'" point to the "modern" sound and the "modern" look. I'll bet there are some who don't know anything about them first hand because they won't touch one with a ten foot pole based on their looks. It's just weird. Some say they aren't really f styles because of the hook scroll. Well what about older Weber Gallatins and Cohen c#s to name just two? How can you praise one maker for a hook scroll and vilify another for the same thing? Other makers are lauded for cutting edge design and thinking outside the Lloyd Loar box - Marty Jacobson comes immediately to mind- but not Breedlove. The whole thing is difficult for me to grasp but those who dislike Breedlove in our community seem to do so on a visceral level. As pointed out above they deserve a huge amount of credit for smashing the USA made F style 2000 dollar barrier. You can get a brand new one for 1499. The used one at Elderly is a steal. Great opportunity for someone who doesn't mind if their F style doesn't look like it was made in 1924.

[Charles E.]

I had a chance to play a couple of Breedloves recently (an F-model and an oval holed model) and was very impressed with the tone. In fact the oval holed mandolin was great. But the wood was plain, the finish was kind of orange-pink? Not something I would want to own. Also, I do not care for the shape of their "F-holes" but I guess they are easily done with a CNC machine.

[multidon]

Charles hits the nail on the head. Tone and playability are still great but the plain wood and orange burst finish are ugly! My old natural blond is a stunner! Sure am glad I have her.

[Charles E.]

Now this is something I would love to try........

http://breedlovemusic.com/mandolins/legacy-series/ko3

I still am unsure about the stump but the finish looks good.

[multidon]

Never was a fan of the K series. To me it looks like something that used to have a scroll but someone chopped it off. But the FO Legacy looks nice to me.

[multidon]

CSIMellissa what makes yours Limited Edition? How is it different from the regular ones?

[CSIMelissa]

Now this is something I would love to try........

http://breedlovemusic.com/mandolins/legacy-series/ko3

I still am unsure about the stump but the finish looks good.

I've seen these in person and the color and finish are amazing. Really looks great with the wood grain.

[CSIMelissa]

CSIMellissa what makes yours Limited Edition? How is it different from the regular ones?

Only 10 were made of mine and they'll never be made again. Here's a link to my actual mando. Looks even better in person - fantastic finish - and the sound..... WOW I really feel fortunate that I found this locally. (Oh, I never liked the orange burst finish either and I prefer the glossy finish like mine has as opposed to the satin finish.)

http://willcuttguitars.com/breedlove...imited-edition

[LongBlackVeil]

Yea I think it's the finish that puts me off of them. But I really do like the blonde ones. I think they should stick with that color

That's a real looker mellisa. I may pick up one of the crossover oval hole models one day. I want to get an oval at some point and those are on my short list

[RichM]

I had one of the early FF models-- really nice tone and playability, and it had a deep red sunburst the was very attractive. I guess they don't make them like that anymore.

[foldedpath]

My $.02... Breedlove mandolins have had a rough time in the marketplace for the following reasons:

1) It was primarily a guitar company with mandolins on the side, and when they decided to make mandolins, a decision was made to make them stand out by looking different. Unfortunately, this is a traditional market that isn't that accepting of new designs, Ask Hans Brentrup or Steve Holst about the acceptance level for "new" designs (and I own two Host guitars, so I know a little about that).

2) They aimed the pricing at "Good bang-for-buck" American made, which meant no binding... which meant any newbie to mandolins would look at a Breedlove compared to a cheap Chinese mandolin like a The Loar and wonder why it didn't look as nice. They also insisted on a matte finish, when the Chinese imports were nailing the aesthetics (if not the tone and build quality) of classic 1920's Gibsons.

Hundreds of newbie mandolin players are buying instruments inferior to Breedlove mandolins at the same price, purely based on aesthetics.

So that's my take on it. I own a wonderful and very offbeat custom-order "Radim Zenkl" signature model, a 4-string mandola with humbucker pickup designed for fingerstyle playing. Carved and signed by Kim Breedlove. Here's what it looks like:



Such a great instrument, but maybe me, Radim, and a half-dozen other players in the world ever got to play one. Maybe you can order this from the current owners, I dunno...but it points out how Kim Breedlove was very interested in alternatives. But the marketplace at large isn't interested in alternative designs, and that's where the focus was (and still is).

[sgrexa]

I think you guys are just paranoid. I don't recall seeing any Breedlove bashing around here and I would certainly pick one and give it a spin if they carried them in music stores around here. They used to years ago, but not anymore. It's not just Kim Breedlove having trouble selling mandolins, it's just about everyone. Talk to any dealer or builder and you would be surprised to hear how bad the market is in general right now. There is a serious glut of mandos on the market and not enough shoes that need filling. These mandos are not everyones cup of tea in the looks dept., but I played a K model as well as a an Alpine A years ago and and they were both really nice.

Sean

PS- I really like those Calton shaped cases Breedlove is offering too, enough that I would likely buy one if he sold them separately.

[foldedpath]

I hesitated to bring this up, but I think it's relevant.

I wouldn't count Breedlove as the most customer-friendly outfit I've dealt with, over the years. When I ordered that Zenkl signature model mandola (posted above), I couldn't do it directly and had to go through Mandolin Brothers as a retailer. The quoted delivery time stretched out twice as long, which in itself is not a bad thing. I'm used to that with custom orders. Mandolin Bro's said it would be drop-shipped directly to me from Breedlove when it was ready. I'm in Washington State, Breedlove is in Oregon, one state away... no sweat.

But here's the killer. When it was ready, they didn't ship it directly to me. My first look at my custom Zenkl 4-string mandola was seeing it in some NAMM convention display shots here on the Cafe, where they showed it to the public instead of delivering it directly to me. I don't even know who had their hands on it, before me. And I was the one paying for it!

That made me mad. I think there are some archived posts here about that. I would have agreed to displaying it at NAMM if they had asked me first. But they didn't. For me, that's the sign of dealing with a corporation instead of with a luthier-owned company that's staying on top of things. I still value my Zenkl mandola, but that was not a good start for the relationship.

[sgrexa]

It wouldn't hurt if he would give these a little publicity. A nice HD Youtube video showing them being made with some nicely recorded mando music so you also get an earful at the same time. I have guitar playing friends who have hardly heard of Breedlove guitars let alone mandolins. They make a great guitar too, super light weight and responsive. As Marty Jacobson was mentioned earlier, I think part of his success lies in his great videos, shown here on the Cafe to the largest mando market in the world, which also happens to be free and generally appreciate these kinds of things. The time elapsed movies Marty has made show all kinds of cool stuff that I still haven't wrapped my head around yet (vacuum sealed necks?) and I own one! Plus, Marty's mandos are onion shaped, which certainly appeals to the masses

Sean

[CSIMelissa]

Yea I think it's the finish that puts me off of them. But I really do like the blonde ones. I think they should stick with that color

That's a real looker mellisa. I may pick up one of the crossover oval hole models one day. I want to get an oval at some point and those are on my short list

Me too.... Thanks for the compliments. I'm thrilled to death with it. That thing could punch through a wall! It was hard to put down and leave the store after I put it on layaway.

[CSIMelissa]

[QUOTE=foldedpath;1301661]My $.02... Breedlove mandolins have had a rough time in the marketplace for the following reasons:

1) It was primarily a guitar company with mandolins on the side, and when they decided to make mandolins, a decision was made to make them stand out by looking different. Unfortunately, this is a traditional market that isn't that accepting of new designs, Ask Hans Brentrup or Steve Holst about the acceptance level for "new" designs (and I own two Host guitars, so I know a little about that).

2) They aimed the pricing at "Good bang-for-buck" American made, which meant no binding... which meant any newbie to mandolins would look at a Breedlove compared to a cheap Chinese mandolin like a The Loar and wonder why it didn't look as nice. They also insisted on a matte finish, when the Chinese imports were nailing the aesthetics (if not the tone and build quality) of classic 1920's Gibsons.

Hundreds of newbie mandolin players are buying instruments inferior to Breedlove mandolins at the same price, purely based on aesthetics.

So that's my take on it. I own a wonderful and very offbeat custom-order "Radim Zenkl" signature model, a 4-string mandola with humbucker pickup designed for fingerstyle playing. Carved and signed by Kim Breedlove. Here's what it looks like:



QUOTE]

What a good looking instrument! I definitely don't care for the matte finish and if the one I have on layaway didn't have an allover glossy finish I may not have given it a second look. Just don't care for it.

[CSIMelissa]

It wouldn't hurt if he would give these a little publicity. A nice HD Youtube video showing them being made with some nicely recorded mando music so you also get an earful at the same time. I have guitar playing friends who have hardly heard of Breedlove guitars let alone mandolins. They make a great guitar too, super light weight and responsive. As Marty Jacobson was mentioned earlier, I think part of his success lies in his great videos, shown here on the Cafe to the largest mando market in the world, which also happens to be free and generally appreciate these kinds of things. The time elapsed movies Marty has made show all kinds of cool stuff that I still haven't wrapped my head around yet (vacuum sealed necks?) and I own one! Plus, Marty's mandos are onion shaped, which certainly appeals to the masses

Sean

Good idea. The one I am getting was in one of their videos about their 2012 limited edition line but that is the only time I've seen Breedlove advertise their mandolins in.

According to the local dealer I bought mine from though, he sells a lot of Breedlove mandos. However, he does sell in store and on-line and has a quite a clientele/following because of his awesome store and luthier skills. (Goole WIllcutt Guitars if anyone wants to check it out.)

I love the red glossy finish on the 2014 models.

[multidon]

Melissa that is definitely a looker! Killer flame with the aged toner and glossy finish. What a knockout. If it sounds as good as it looks you will be one happy camper.

Sgrexa there hasn't been a conspiracy or anything. But on the numerous "what mandolin should I buy" threads I have noticed more tha a few comments along the lines of "I wouldn't buy one because I don't like the way they look". So I simply point out that attitude is out there. Personally I think there are mandolins out there that way more non traditional looking than Breedloves and yet they are praised. I find Giacomel J5 mandolins funny looking indeed but I know they are very fine instruments so I would give one a go if I could afford it. I guess so called "traditional" looks whatever that is are the most important thing to some folks. Thank goodness mandolin players of the past were willing to embrace change. If they hadn't the only instruments available today would still be bowl backs.

[CSIMelissa]

As for non-traditional looks of a Breedlove... Sometimes it's nice to break away from the crowd and have an instrument that doesn't look like everyone else's! I was happy I found one with an allover glossy finish. I actually think it would have been sold awhile ago but there were two things in my favor: a. When Willcutt Guitar puts something on their web site they usually don't display it in their store and b. through a fluke/mistake on their web site this mando was hard to find and not listed in the "mandolin" section.