Strap Button Replacement/Repair Advice?

[jmkatcher]

I just purchased a very high grade instrument from the Classifieds but was unfortunately surprised to find it had a non-disclosed cheap strap button screwed into the neck heel. The screw is not quite at the right angle (button not quite perpendicular to neck) so the cheesy plastic button spins freely on its screw and can/does rub slightly on the wood as (of course) there's no felt/leather washer either. The probably unwise part of me declined to return it thinking I could fix this.

I have a nice ebony button on order and was thinking I'd remove the existing one, narrow, but not fill the existing hole with wood glue (not Elmer's?) then install the replacement at the slightly different but correct angle with a felt washer between button and finish. Does this sound correct? I've installed buttons (correctly) on electric guitars before, but I'd tapped the original holes in that case rather than fixing someone else's mess.

Many many thanks in advance for advice/confirmation here,
Jeff

[multidon]

If it were my instrument and it was high grade, as you say, I would just pay a luthier to do it right. Screws in neck heels can be a dangerous proposition. If the guide hole is just a tiny bit too small the pressure of the screw can act like a wedge and split the wood. However, if you have the nerves of steel to do it yourself your procedure as outlined above is not a good one as glue alone holds screws poorly. Here is what I would do if doing it myself. Plug the original hole with a hardwood dowel and some Original Titebond. It just so happens round toothpicks work well for this, they are usually some sort of hardwood. Carefully scrape or sand flush, making sure you don't mark up surrounding finish. Then after it's dry drill the new hole of correct size at the angle you want. Be sure to get it right the first time! If you install it with a felt washer all your work will be covered up. Stew Mac sells a special drill bit that's perfectly matched to their strap button screws so you don't have to guess.

You don't say what kind of instrument it is or what kind of neck wood it is. Mahogany is much more prone to splitting than maple I think although it can happen with anything. Another plan is to plug the hole as above, touch it up to match the surrounding wood, and do without a strap button. There are alternatives. F style: use the scroll. A style: leather bootlace tied to the fingerboard extension or headstock. Tying to headstock for guitars works well too. Martin sells a little leather loop gizmo for about 5 bucks that puts a strap button just behind the nut.

Good luck!

[jmkatcher]

Thanks so much! It's a Woodley mandola (specifically an H1 replica) and I'm not going to take the chance then and take it to a professional. I may have it filled and refinished if that can be done unobtrusively. I'd thought replacing with something far less bad done right would be the easier fix, but possibly less stable.

[multidon]

Okay, so H1's don't have elevated fingerboard extensions, right? So tying the strap there is out. I Googled H1 images and found a picture of a gentleman playing with the strap on the headstock under the strings behind the nut. Seemed to be working for him. Getting advice from a professional luthier is always a good idea. I feel like the original hole should be plugged with wood regardless. Then you and he can decide whether to match it or drill a hole for the new button. The repair would be invisible with the new button. That's the advantage there. If you just patch and match a good luthier can make it inconspicuous but it will never be invisible.

You know I have installed a fair number of strap buttons myself. But always on inexpensive instruments. Would I do it on an instrument I paid 2000 or 3000 dollars for? Not on a bet. Discretion is the better part of valor. Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck!

[Jeff Mando]

My father's old trick. Before you install the new screw, take a new (dry) bar of soap and drag the screw threads across it a couple times to act as a lubricant. And, of course, go slow, use the right size screw driver, don't let it slip, etc. My favorite for this job is a "stubby" screwdriver about three inches long with a handle about two inches around that fits perfectly in my palm. Just seems to give a little more control. It is also a great size for removing neck screws from Fender type "bolt-on" neck guitars without chewing up the screw heads. Or like they say, if in doubt, pay a luthier!

[Ivan Kelsall]

I installed a gold plated strap button in the heel of a Weber "Beartooth" "A" style that i used to own,it was rock solid & looked good as well. Re.this mandola - personally,to do the job properly (IMHO),the hole should be opened up to 'say' 1/8" diameter & plugged with a softwood dowel glued into place & tapped in lightly so that the top is flush with the back of the mandolin.The dowel can then be carefully drilled using a hand held 'pin drill' until you get a suitably sized hole for a good quality button to be screwed into place. Jeff's idea of lubricating the screw thread slightly is also a good one,as long as you don't overdo it. The idea of using a softwood dowel instead of a hardwood one,is that the softwood will open up to take the thread & then spring back to close around the thread & grip it. The base of the new button should easily cover a 1/8" diameter hole & remember to put a leather washer under the base of the button to prevent the button itself from cracking or damaging the finish in any way,
Ivan

[jmkatcher]

I took it in today and it'll be filled and redrilled. Unfortunately the placement of the original hole is such that we can only shift it so much over without leaving an unsightly mark. The replacement button from Iluak Ivory/Northstone Manufacturing is excellent btw.

Of course also had it pointed out (and feeling very very stupid about not noticing) that non-trussrod neck has too much relief requiring plane/refret. Also nut was cut by a 6 year old. I believe in the skills of the repair person (Cat Fox) to fix it properly, but still feel ripped off.

[jmkatcher]

Realized this wasn't written well after editing interval expired. To make it very clear, I'm not implying any sense of ripoff from the necessary repairs and am extremely grateful that such a highly skilled person can help make things right.

[j. condino]

Instead of plugging and redrilling the screw hole, mashing an old toothpick, and flooding it with plastic carpenter's glue, making the neck even further compromised in one of the most critical spots on the instrument, why not just bevel the new fancy strap button by sanding the surface just a little bit so that it sits flush when using the existing screw hole? Simple, fast, and no further structural weakening.

j.
www.condino.com

[jmkatcher]

I'm hoping the work will be cleaner than that. The existing one is not only off-rotational axis, but also off the linear one too for lack of better words. I thought seriously about reusing it in the way you suggest, but every time I looked at that cockeyed thing it grated.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From above - "... every time I looked at that cockeyed thing it grated ".. Jeff - that's something that never goes away. If it's cockeyed it's cockeyed - full time,period !,
Ivan