Eighth Note Question

[CSIMelissa]

Along with teaching myself mandolin I'm learning to read music too. I love the book I'm using but need advice. I'm being introduced to eighth notes now. Here's my question: when playing an eighth note, is it customary or easier on the "&" part of a rhythm to play an upstroke, or a down stroke?

To make sure I make sense, in a simple rhythm like "1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &" would every numbered count 1, 2, 3, 4 be played with a down stroke and every "&" be an up stroke? Or does it matter?

Hope I don't confuse anyone but I'm not sure how else to ask it. I certainly can't ask my lesson book! Maybe I'm just analyzing too much.

[Mike Bunting]

To make sure I make sense, in a simple rhythm like "1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &" would every numbered count 1, 2, 3, 4 be played with a down stroke and every "&" be an up stroke? Or does it matter?

Yes. Exactly.

[Jon Hall]

Most of the time, that is the way I would play it.

[UsuallyPickin]

Yup ... DUDUDUDU is an important habit to get into ... don't forget to stay loose in your wrist and fingers .... Luck.. R/

[CSIMelissa]

Thanks all! I'm trying not to develop bad habits early!

[JeffD]

Thanks all! I'm trying not to develop bad habits early!

Good on ya. Its worth it.

[Tobin]

Yup ... DUDUDUDU is an important habit to get into ... don't forget to stay loose in your wrist and fingers .... Luck.. R/

These folks are all correct, but there's way more to it than that! It's very easy to play DUDUDUDU when you have all eighth-notes. Where it gets tricky, though, is when there are combinations of eighths and quarter notes, and they get into syncopated rhythms. You'll be tempted to switch gears, but it's very important to think in terms of DUDUDUDU, and make sure you're playing with that rhythm. You may need to start a quarter note on an upstroke, which will be confusing. But it becomes very, very important later.

[Mike Bunting]

These folks are all correct, but there's way more to it than that! It's very easy to play DUDUDUDU when you have all eighth-notes. Where it gets tricky, though, is when there are combinations of eighths and quarter notes, and they get into syncopated rhythms. You'll be tempted to switch gears, but it's very important to think in terms of DUDUDUDU, and make sure you're playing with that rhythm. You may need to start a quarter note on an upstroke, which will be confusing. But it becomes very, very important later.

The original question referred to simple eighth note melodies, no point on complicating things at this early stage, but basically, we all agree on the importance of learning to base it all on the D/U strokes.

[Marc Ferry]

Indeed. When you see 8th notes, start on a down stroke and keep alternating!

[EdSherry]

The advice to play with strictly alternating DUDU works fine for reels/hoedowns/hornpipes, as well as swing/jazz/choro and most songs in 4/4. It doesn't work well for jigs (6/8, where one typically plays 6 eighth notes as DUD DUD) and slip jigs (9/8: DUD DUD DUD).

[Mike Bunting]

The advice to play with strictly alternating DUDU works fine for reels/hoedowns/hornpipes, as well as swing/jazz/choro and most songs in 4/4. It doesn't work well for jigs (6/8, where one typically plays 6 eighth notes as DUD DUD) and slip jigs (9/8: DUD DUD DUD).

The original post "To make sure I make sense, in a simple rhythm like "1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &" would every numbered count 1, 2, 3, 4 be played with a down stroke and every "&" be an up stroke?" I don't think she meant 6/8 time in the original question. When the OP runs into problems with what you are explaining, I'm sure she'll ask about it.

[tangleweeds]

These folks are all correct, but there's way more to it than that! It's very easy to play DUDUDUDU when you have all eighth-notes. Where it gets tricky, though, is when there are combinations of eighths and quarter notes, and they get into syncopated rhythms. You'll be tempted to switch gears, but it's very important to think in terms of DUDUDUDU, and make sure you're playing with that rhythm. You may need to start a quarter note on an upstroke, which will be confusing. But it becomes very, very important later.

This actually really messed me up at first, and as a beginner I think it's a good warning. I started out playing fiddle tunes that were straight DUDUDUDU, but when I ran into mixtures of quarter and eighth notes I would got very confused and frustrated about getting my down and up stroked intertangled so they didn't correspond to on/off beat notes properly anymore.

I'm still holding off on playing jigs yet, though I know lots of jigs on the tin whistle. I think I need to get more steady on my keeping my strokes aligned with simple 4/4 tunes mixing quarter and eighth notes. At least I notice what I've done immediately after messing up my DUDU stroke/rhythm alignment.

[Gerard Dick]

It was 4 months before I figured out that this was important and another 6 months to unlearn the bad habits i had ingrained. If you go DUDUDU on 8th notes and DDD on 1/4 notes you maintain the back & forth rhythm of your right hand and it goes much easier. You are still going DuDuDu on 1/4 notes but the upstroke is just reloading not playing. This reduces the need to think about pick direction until you get into more complicated time signatures.

[Fr. White]

As a beginner I am also trying to get this down. Gerard thank you for the above answer I had been struggling to make sense of the DUDU on quarter notes and eighth notes so your explanation really helps out.

[Chris W.]

Rather than just DUDUDUDU, I like to think of it as down on the downbeat and up on the upbeat. Just helps avoid the confusion that can arise when dealing with 1/4 notes, 1/8 notes and rests. So if a bar has two 1/4 notes followed by four 1/8 notes, I would pick D D DUDU. The right hand still has a DUDUDUDU motion, but the first two upstrokes are not striking a string. This way the right hand is keeping time. If you tap your foot to the beat, downpick when your foot goes down and up-pick when your foot goes up.

[Mike Bunting]

Rather than just DUDUDUDU, I like to think of it as down on the downbeat and up on the upbeat. Just helps avoid the confusion that can arise when dealing with 1/4 notes, 1/8 notes and rests. So if a bar has two 1/4 notes followed by four 1/8 notes, I would pick D D DUDU. The right hand still has a DUDUDUDU motion, but the first two upstrokes are not striking a string. This way the right hand is keeping time. If you tap your foot to the beat, downpick when your foot goes down and up-pick when your foot goes up.

That's a good way to explain it. It would helping dealing with syncopations too.

[belbein]

I'm still holding off on playing jigs .

Why? It's DOWNupdownDOWNupdown. Nothin' to it. (I only know this because it's what my teacher has me working on.)

[Bertram Henze]

I don't think she meant 6/8 time in the original question. When the OP runs into problems with what you are explaining, I'm sure she'll ask about it.

And we haven't even started to talk about triplets (more pickstrokes) and HOPOs (less pickstrokes) yet...

[Nevin]

If you think it is tricky with a pick, try with a bow. Actually, bowing has improved my picking in that I think to end up where I need to be with the pick after a syncopated passage.