Differences between UK and US - besides the prices of things

[JeffD]

If there were an "off topic" section of the café, I would love to yak about some of the quirky things I got wrong in my travels in the UK. (Actually I am glad there isn't an "off topic" forum on the café, as they seem to be the forums most out of control on the other subject specific sites I frequent.)

But mandolin/music related, I especially liked how much more "established" the culture of traditional participatory music seems. There is a time honored place for participatory music and musicians, understood seemingly by most folks, even those who don't pay attention to music.

Not so, in my experience, in the US. It seems to me, traditional music, old time music, contra dance music, indeed actually playing music that is not garage band rock or emo acoustic folk with ambitions of someday "making it", is almost invisible. Its something I have to constantly explain.

"Well not exactly bluegrass but that's close."
"No I am not the slightest bit Irish, I just love to play Irish fiddle tunes. No this isn't a fiddle its a mandolin."
"No I don't perform anywhere. There isn't anywhere you can go to 'catch my act'."
"It's contra dancing, sort of like square dancing I guess, but not really. No we don't 'dress up' for it."
"No we aren't a band. We just get together regularly and play music. There is no hat out because we don't pass the hat."

"Uncle Jeff why do you play the mandolin? Isn't that something musicians do?"

At the time I was traveling (late 80s), mostly in Scotland) there was a lot of friendly and informed interest in my mandolin case, and many people suggesting pubs and places I should try and visit because of the music that was there.

[Jacob]

Traditional music and old time music is alive and well, and very visible, today, here in western North Carolina. You might have to explain the garage band scene.

[JeffD]

Traditional music and old time music is alive and well, and very visible, today, here in western North Carolina.

That is true. All that area of mountains and foot hills, western Virginia and West Virginia, western North Carolina, eastern Kentucky, northern Georgia, is very very old time friendly. An exceptional place, actually.

Areas like that, and college towns generally, seem to be where I feel most at home with the music.

[mandroid]

Seems in rural western Ireland they were OK with you playing what ever tune you brought to the Pub rota .

In the States The ITM crowd is fussier ..

[derbex]

Sadly I think English traditional music struggles in England, especially the South East, seems to be better the furher you get from The Smoke.

Morris dancing is regarded as a national joke -rather than part of the culture to be supported and celebrated- probably just as well, a bunch of men waving sticks would probably get locked up for rioting in the current climate if they weren't wearing cricket whites and a bowler Hmmm, just as well there aren't likely to be any chavs reading this.

[Pete Jenner]

"Uncle Jeff why do you play the mandolin? Isn't that something musicians do?"

I vote for that as the MC motto.

[Jim Garber]

Trad and OT seems to go in waves in the US, like when O Brother was out there was a rush. I do think, tho, that over the years more and more people seem to know what OT music is -- I rarely have to say that it is sort of a pre-cursor to bluegrass or that the instrumental stuff is like square dance music. I would imagine that Riverdance gave a rev to Irish music a bunch of years back. Hey, eve Deliverance gave a bump to bluegrass.

[JeffD]

Seems in rural western Ireland they were OK with you playing what ever tune you brought to the Pub rota .

In the States The ITM crowd is fussier ..

I had a lot of fun playing in Ireland. I was playing my 23 A2 Gibson, this is before mandolins were all that common in IT, bouzoukis yes, mandolins not so much, and I remember being asked to play some Jimmy Rogers. One fellow even looked at me quizzically and said, "you certainly didn't come all the way over here to play our music".

[allenhopkins]

Well: here in Rochester, there's a folk music club that's been holding weekly sing-arounds for 43 years now, no signs of its demise; Golden Link also sponsors a monthly concert series and a small September festival, Turtle Hill.

There's a weekly contra dance, and a weekly "English dance" (older British Isles figures) sponsored by Country Dancers of Rochester. CDR also sponsors annual Thanksgiving-weekend festivals. There's a very active fiddle club, and a Comhaltas Ceoltoiri Eireann chapter that promotes and organizes a bunch of Irish music and dance events.

Not a great "pub/club scene," as far as real traditional music goes, though there are plenty of venues for singer-songwriters. Bernunzio's sponsors regular bluegrass and old-time jams, a "ukulele support group," and in-store concerts and workshops with touring artists in a variety of genres. There are a number of small festivals in the area -- Springwater Fiddler's Fair, Brantling Bluegrass Festival, Pickin' In the Pasture, to name a few. And there are house concert series, Cafe Veritas at the Unitarian Church, and a bunch of other stuff I'm too lazy to look up now.

I do my modest part to contribute (besides playing as much as they'll let me), helping to run a small concert series in Clifton Springs, south of Rochester, and serving as an organizer of the annual Genesee Country Village Old-Time Fiddlers' Fair. But really, it's not about boasting about the music available in one medium-sized Northeaster city.

It's just to say that there can be more around than you think, if you look for it. Cities like Boston, NYCity, San Francisco etc. have amazing smorgasbords of music, in a wide variety of genres. But even in li'l "backwaters" like Rochester NY there can be a lot more going on than you might expect. May be differently organized or staged than it is in the UK, or in larger cities, but don't be too surprised if there's a lot going on right under our noses.

[DataNick]

Europe, and of course the UK, is on my bucket list of places to get to before I leave this earth.

However after Alan's post, I'll definitely have to stop by Rochester, NY the next time
I go to see family in Philly!

Thanks for the info Alan!

Looks like a lot happening there!

[Pete Jenner]

Europe, and of course the UK, is on my bucket list of places to get to before I leave this earth.

Oi! I thought you were coming here?

[DataNick]

Oi! I thought you were coming here?

I'd love to Pete, but the "Mother" continent (Western society, not ethnicity) calls to me first...LOL!

[Pete Jenner]

Bulls#%$t!

[DataNick]

Easy pilgrim...LOL!

[Pete Jenner]

Don't pilgrim me ya turncoat.

[DataNick]

OK, already!...Down under first, then Europe....better have the Sheilas lined up that fateful day...LOL!

[DataNick]

Sorry about the 7 post hijack of this thread: Carry On!

[Randi Gormley]

I wonder if folk music scenes are like -- er, pregnancy. You never notice it until you're there yourself. I lived in this neck of the woods for a good decade and never saw any folk music that was recognizable as such except the occasional Irish festival or Greek festival. Then I got involved in the ITM scene and realized I could do a session every night (except maybe Saturday) if I so desire. Who knew? When I was growing up in northeast Ohio, the only music I remember being around was middle/high school band and the rock and roll typical of teen-age years. I checked a couple months ago to see what was going on ITM wise and found there are a couple three sessions, not to mention some other folk stuff that regularly meets in libraries and club halls and I'd be surprised if I couldn't find something going on in Cleveland. It seems to be a matter of finding the right key, at least in the areas I've been lucky to have been at. Alas, the only thing I know about folk music in other places is what people who have visited have told me and there does appear to be ITM and English music pubs around if you know where to go.

[JeffD]

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of music here where I live. Just about any city if you know where to look and can use the internet. But that's not really the thing I am getting at. Because in most of the country, even in Rochester, or NYC, or Boston, (well maybe not Boston), traditional music is virtually invisible to the average person. We musicians can find it, sure, but the average person doesn't know it exists, and outside of high school band can't conceive of actually playing music except professionally.

Boston has a whole lot of traditional musicians and so much fiddle music that more folks are aware of it.

In contrast to my experience in the UK mostly in the north, where I was treated as if it was perfectly reasonable that I would have an instrument case with me, and not be heading to a concert hall. Same experience in Ireland. In Ireland I was haled by a fellow wanted me to join him and some other street musicians go busking (hate that word) on Grafton St.

[DHopkins]

Our band plays a regular gig in a small restaurant/lounge in our area. Almost every Saturday night, one of the customers is a Catholic priest (who shall remain unidentified). He's Irish, has the brogue and plays a penny whistle. You can't talk with him when he doesn't at least mention the fact that he believes England is trying to kill (or at least suppress) traditional Irish music. Being in the deep South makes me too far removed to be able to totally understand and agree or disagree. Anyone from Ireland feeling the same way?

[Jack Roberts]

The UK has The Acoustic Music Company and the USA doesn't.

[brunello97]

Comping a really, really big country with a tiny island.... hmmmm. Bound to be some complifications there. I've always preferred to speak English because it is such a delightfully mongrel language. But musically, the US trumps most every country for for its fulsome hybridity. Okay, maybe the Brazilians can take us on about this. (But they don't have Broadway.)

These are silly comparisons. Fun and funny at the same time. My family's witheringly Irish, and we've always preferred things Brit to things English. But this is a wide wide place and our good fortune of Spanish, French, African, Italian, Jewish etc. have such a makeup on our music. Couldn't keep 'em separated if I had to. Or why would I want to?

Lots of 'traditional musics' around, Jeff. Just outside of the myopia of the NE.

Toast: Probably the most underrated contribution of the English to civilization. Yum.


Mick

[JeffD]

The UK has The Acoustic Music Company and the USA doesn't.

[JeffD]

its fulsome hybridity. ....

Love it.

Lots of 'traditional musics' around, Jeff. Just outside of the myopia of the NE.

I agree, but by the second generation, certainly by the third, pop culture predominates, and those still interested their ancestral traditional music become so few they are under the noise level. (I found grandpa's set list and some kind of banjo-accordiolukee thing, lets see....)

[Ivan Kelsall]

It's hardly surprising that the UK has a wider spread of 'Folk Tradition', & that it pops up quite commonly in most places in the UK to one extreme or another - we're a very small country & the concentrations of Folk Tradition & the musical culture are spread less thin than in the US. I've always understood that the US was a big country,but dear Lord in heaven !,you have to be an outsider to realise just how vast it really is. The first time i visited the US 40 odd years ago,i was totally overawed by the distances that in some areas, you needed to travel before you saw any other people.On my first visit to the Blue Ridge Mts.,i couldn't believe that there were that many trees on the planet - & that were a small portion of the US.
It's no real surprise then,that in the US,the 'musical culture' is so spread out over most of the country,but also that there are well defined areas of traditional musical culture,mostly in the areas originally settled by people from 'outside'.
In the UK,we did have a large influx of people from Ireland during the dreadful potato famine of 1845 - 52 & they brought their music & traditions with them. In many parts of the UK,especially in large industrial cities such as Manchester where i live,the Irish settled in large numbers & worked in the Cotton mills or the dockyards which flourished at that time. They were also greatly involved in anything which required 'digging'. They were a huge source of labour in developing our road systems & in digging out the Manchester Ship Canal which runs 36 miles between Liverpool & Manchester,which created a new inland shipping 'port' in Manchester. At one time it was the 3rd biggest port in the UK & of course became a huge source of employment.
Manchester still has a great Irish tradition, & Irish names abound. My wife is of Irish stock. While her mother & father were English,her grandparents were Irish,something of which i keep telling her,she should be righteously proud. The musical Ttraditions of Ireland & Scotland along with our 'home-grown' English traditions,are alive & kicking & you really don't have to go very far afield to find them in the North of England. Bluegrass music however,is as rare as hen's teeth & well scattered,
Ivan