Snake Heads, Loar and there after...

[Wilbur James]

I am considering getting a Gibson snake head, and was wondering is there much, if any difference in the Loar era snakes than those 1925 or later. Also I have seen some with Birch backs and some with maple, is there any real difference there? Are there any differences in the tonal qualities of the blacktops vs the finishes that you can see the grain?

[pheffernan]

As I understand it, Gibson was using varnish before 1925 and nitrocellulose lacquer afterwards.

[sunburst]

Black top mandolins have a much darker sound.

[Wilbur James]

Darker sound?

[UsuallyPickin]

Well ...... you will find good mandolins of this type in both woods and from both during and post LAL ... The pick of the litter is the A2Z model. You will notice that those cost twice as much or more. I wouldn't buy any one of these mandolins without either playing it first or a try out period with right of return. I've played some really sweet sounding ones and some that just didn't have a tone and ring that I like. Luck... R/

[mandroid]

Seems few non snake head copies of Gibson A's , I guess they like the look

and how that headstock shape makes paddle heads 2nd tier , in value

of the 22's and earlier ..

coffee time

[Jim Garber]

I believe that we are talking about Gibson snakeheads and not copies tho I see mandroid's point that most people these days will copy the snakeheads and not the paddleheads. I have seen very few post Loar-era snakeheads tho there have been some re-dating since Joe's book came out with emphasis on the FON's.

Gibson was never the super-consistent manufacturer and it is difficult to say that an example from one era will be comparable to another from the same era. I do think you have to take it example by example. The top snakeheads I have played over the last years tho fall into those super-desirable categories: A4 and A2Z. Had I the cash for either of those they would have been mine.

I have a nice black snakehead A2 from 1923 that is a sweet-sounding one. I have had it for a few decades and I always return to it from time to time -- an old friend, for sure.

[j. condino]

My favorite snakeheads are the unbound A0 or jr models- everything you need and no fluff, at about 1/2- 1/3 the price of the other models with fancy binding and such. Soundwise, one of the most underrated years for old Gibson ovals is the 1914-15 paddleheads; 'great instruments at rock bottom prices. Get one of those and a set of Alessi machines!

j.
www.condino.com

[SincereCorgi]

I wouldn't let the year be your guide- I was excited to try a 1924 A Jr. today and it didn't do anything for me.

[John Gardinsky]

I am very pleased with my jr. It's a '23 or '24. Don't remember right off hand. It's a lot of mandolin in an unassuming package.

[AlanN]

Darker sound?

I think John might be pullin' yer snake, er, leg...

I had a '24 A and a '24 A-1, both black tops. Cannons.

[BradKlein]

As you see, opinions will always differ around here when it comes to Gibson A's. But I think all would agree on a few points to keep in mind as you shop.

- The finish changes from varnish to lacquer (I don't know the date offhand, but toward the end of the Loar years)
- the presence of an adjustable truss rod in the higher models differentiates them from the lower of that era
- the necks on even the no-rod models are mostly thinner than a typical teens paddle head
- Although the finish color doesn't affect the sound directly, there was almost certainly more attention/consistancy in the higher models, and those have 'fancier' finishes. The A-4s and A2Zs of the era are particularly beautiful mandolins.
- The condition and placement of the frets and fretboard in ANY century old instrument makes a big difference in sound and playability.

Now as for what to DO with that info - that's anyone's guess, and depends on your budget and interests and what you think sounds best. There are endless examples of pros who have made great music with almost every Gibson mandolin model and every era, so at some point you just have to take your pick and play!

[trevor]

I've just posted a thread with some snakehead comparisons.