Rip off Britain

[trevor]

Well said Allen.

[nickster60]

Being a business man first and musician second I see the OP point. Since it is his money and I assumed he earned it he should be be able to have a opinion. If he feels he is being taken advantage off that that is his view and I respect that.

[trevor]

I don't think anyone said that all opinions weren't valid? I certainly didn't. I take Dave's point and agree. I just thought Allen made a good point too.

£38 for a pick certainly seems a bit steep. I haven't tried one but some of my customers love them. I settled on Gator 1.5mm a few years ago when there was a lot of talk about moving to thicker/heavier picks. I tried the Gator 2mm but couldn't get on with them. Each to their own.

[Tim Griffin]

The US also has more competition more competition leads to lower prices. Free enterprise is good for consumers ,the economic other systems well not so much.

Around here GC has no competition really. They tend to price everything a bit higher than retail when it comes to accessories.

[nickster60]

You will have to excuse me I am Ragging Capitalist. When I here a term like Societal Priorities it makes my blood boil. I wont get political bit that is political speak for income redistribution.

I normally agree with Allen and have great respect for him. He is one the most knowledgable members of the cafe.

[Bernie Daniel]

Having seen various medical practitioners absolutely free of charge for mandolin induced tendonitis, I've more than made back the extra I pay on strings or on American instruments. I use European plectra too (from Wegen). And stuff here is certainly a lot cheaper than on mainland Europe.

<Moderator edit. Political content removed>

[fredhicks]

And life is so bad there my wife and I will likely be moving back to N Yorkshire(Otley?...Skipton?) in the next year or two. Not cheaper.....but never a place prettier.

[nickster60]

Just out of curiosity I did some research on a British product imported to th US and compared the difference in price
The item is a 2014 Truimph Bonneville T100
The Uk price is 7399 pounds which = $12500 US dollars
The US price is $8899 US dollars

Please correct me if I am wrong or have missed something but the product made in the UK is cheaper in the US than its county of origin

[Ivan Kelsall]

Willie,one of our Cafe regulars,& an e-mail buddy of mine, bought his Kentucky KM900 mandolin for $800 US (£474 UK).The same mandolin is for sale in the UK for £849 ($1432 US).Who in the USA would fork out an extra $583 for one ?.The Mandolin store currently offers them at a discount of approx. $450,most likely because they, as retailers, can get a good deal on them from the importers. In the UK,our stores simply can't get the same deals ,& i know this to be absolutely true. A very good friend of mine who used to run a music store in Liverpool for close to 40 years, told me himself of the prices he had to pay for goods from UK wholesalers. The guys who i know very well & see regularly in one of Manchester's largest & well known music stores,from whom i've been buying for 50 years,also tell me of the prices they have to pay for their goods. It's mostly NOT the stores themselves that are hiking up the cost,but the wholesalers. How much is a pair of Levi 501's in the US ?. One of our best known UK stores is selling them at £65 - £70 a pair,that's $109 - $118 US per pair - are you folks paying that ? - no way !.The very same make / style of jeans are available in the US for $53 (£31 UK).
As musicians,we in the UK are constantly amazed at the prices you folks in the US pay for goods which we have to pay as much as 50% more for in UK terms. Again,i hasten to add that it's mostly not the stores themselves,but the wholesalers who are hiking the cost up. We are ''ripped off'' in many ways,& we know it,but unfortunately we have only 2 choices, pay up or do without,
Ivan

[Bertram Henze]

We are ''ripped off'' in many ways,& we know it,but unfortunately we have only 2 choices, pay up or do without

There is always a 3rd choice: do with something else. Alternatives exist.

If, OTOH, we crave "originals" from the land of our dreams (e.g. the US), we create a demand that keeps it all alive. And there are people (entrepreneurs, employees) who make a living off that and redistribute the money by buying/hiring yet other people - the money is not gone, it's not locked in some Duck MacScrooge's safe, it circulates. Much circulation, high prices, rich country. Little circulation, low prices, poor country. We have seen that difference in Germany right after the wall went down; guess where the prices were low...

[neil argonaut]

You will have to excuse me I am Ragging Capitalist. When I here a term like Societal Priorities it makes my blood boil. I wont get political bit that is political speak for income redistribution.

I normally agree with Allen and have great respect for him. He is one the most knowledgable members of the cafe.

Being an Anarchist Communist I tend to agree that we should stick to mandolin related discussion and not politics .

[trevor]

I would like to point out that my prices are roughly equivalent to US prices plus VAT duty and shipping (which you would have to pay anyway on importation, the customs folks use the internet to check values and under-declaration invalidates insurance and risks confiscation and a fine and criminal record) I work directly with luthiers and don't use any wholesaler/distributors (with the exception of Eastman mandolins). I also offer free set-ups indefinitely.

My customers also benefit from a UK based warranty which means I take care of any and all costs in the case of problems. US warranties are at the cost of the customer for all shipping and it is hell to get a repaired instrument back into the UK without paying VAT and duty again.

[G7MOF]

Shipping too the States is expensive as well. I've sold to people in the US and they had to pay all the high import duties as well. This makes selling from the UK to the US using the Café classifieds rather expensive to reach a larger market!!!

[Ivan Kelsall]

Trevor - You must have realised a long while ago,that it's your honesty & thoughtfulness in doing that,that keeps us buying from you. You have a well earned reputation for quality of service & of fair pricing second to none. Unfortunately for us,there are too few dealers who are so mindful.
Bertram - One aspect of being in the 'Euro-zone',is that some of the countries that are struggling financially ie. Spain & Portugal,2 countries that my wife & myself visit,have sky high prices on many things. That has in itself had the knock-on effect of reducing the number of their summer visitors. Holiday makers are finding less expensive countries in which to spend their hols. or indeed,staying at home.
Most of us have 'finite' cash resources & we choose carefully, wherever we are,in what & where we buy. It's hardly surprising that all of us at times,look at things we'd love to own,selling for far less than we can purchase them for & feeling just a bit envious.We know that it works both ways,but that doesn't make me feel any better about being ripped off by some vendors,
Ivan

[nickster60]

I understand the middleman driving up wholesale prices. I also understand that there aren't mandolin retailers on every corner.
But I am having difficulty understanding how a motorcycle made in England can be $3600 more in the country it is produced that it costs in the US.

Is it a matter of charging what the market will bare.

I choose to use a motorcycle because I know them well.

[trevor]

There is 20% VAT (a sales tax) on them in the UK, and possibly other taxes, I don't know I'm not in that trade.

[nickster60]

Trevor is vat included in the base price of a car or other vehicle, or is it added on later. What is the purpose of the vat? I have always read about it but I have little knowledge of it purpose.

[trevor]

As far as I know its included in almost all retail prices (there are some exceptions). Its purpose is to raise tax in the cheapest way possible because retailers do the administration.

[nickster60]

That explains it thank you.

I worked years ago for a company in the US that was owned by two Aussies. The management team was the two Aussies, Two Brits and two Americans. When our tax time came around we(Americans) were complaining about our taxes. There was a collective laugh from the the Aussies and Brits. You have no idea what taxes are mate was the gist of the conversation. The Aussie owner went explain why they were in the US "You cant make any money over there". I never complained about my taxes after that.

[JeffD]

The first time I went to the UK I went to Scotland. This was a bunch of years ago.

I was young, and hadn't traveled a whole lot. What surprised me most was how much surprised me. The part of "Scotland" I thought I understood got smaller and smaller and the things I had to really look at to see got more numerous and it felt like I had to second guess everything I thought about everything. It was exhilarating, and very scary at the time.

I soon got the hang of just taking everything as it comes, asking questions all the time, and taking full advantage of being from somewhere else and not expected to know my way around or what I was doing.

I was there to play music in sessions and pubs and on the street in and around the Edinburgh Folk Festival, which goal was achieved over and over again, what with my tenacity and going back 4 more times in subsequent years.

Now here is the more relevant part - while everything was more expensive than I expected, I ended up spending a lot less money than I thought I would. I cannot tell you where I saved or where my estimates were overblown, I just remember that individual "things" always cost more, and yet at the end of the trip I was ahead, (one year way ahead), of what I had budgeted.

I became a regular at several pubs, played a whole lot of music, heard a lot of first class world class music, and met some pretty awesome players and made lots of friends who have become friends of long standing, and even had a romance. And at the end of the day I still cannot say I understand the culture or can predict the differences, or how people will react or feel. I just got real good at taking it as it comes at me.

[JeffD]

I have concluded that its almost impossible to take one thing, like the unexpected difference in prices of somethings, and figure out all the why's. Some of the why's go back to the beginning of time. Trying to understand in some comprehensive way a culture I did not grow up in is a foolish way to spend my time. Especially as I am not an ethnomusicologist, cultural anthropologist, or even particularly social adept, and would be hard pressed to explain in plain language many of my own culture's idiosyncrasies, however right they feel to me.

[trevor]

Since my first visit in 1972 to the US I've been about 20 more times, my understanding of the US is limited to my own experiences. I wouldn't claim to understand British or English culture (lets not get into that). There's an ongoing discussion among what we call the 'chattering classes' about what it is to be British or English.. some think you have to appreciate cricket, to me its like watching paint dry in slow motion, but I'm sure many cricket lovers wouldn't want to pass their time the way I do. I'm of the belief that people within one country can have experiences as varied as between countries.

[Eddie Sheehy]

I'm going to the UK on Sat... maybe I should bring a bag of 'goodies' to pay for my flight...

[trevor]

If you are anywhere near Brighton come along and see me if you can.

[nickster60]

Eddie
Can you pack me in your luggage? I will promise to fill my pockets with Blue Chips.