Gilchrist 5C "Classical" mandolin?

[Richard Mott]

I've been listening on-line to Chris Thile (and Sarah Jarosz) play a lovely Gilchrist 5C "classical" mandolin at Carter's Vintage Guitars. (I'm not certain, but I think this instrument may have been built by Steve for Charlie Derrington to use in a mandolin orchestra in Nashville.)

Can anyone enlighten me as to what makes it a classical mandolin? Chris Thile remarks about it being a different "take" on what a non-F5 mandolin can sound like. To my ears it sounds somewhat more "mellow" and maybe less of a bark than a bluegrass mandolin, perhaps X-braced and some other tonal adjustments?

Any insights much appreciated!

[mtucker]

Any insights much appreciated!

If you call Walter Carter, believe he'd be more than happy to give you the run down on it. He has as much experience/knowledge with the voicing and construction on that model as anyone.

[sgarrity]

The classical models were mostly Englemann tops with X bracing. The one Sarah played in the video was Charlie D's. The one Thile played belonged to a cafe member.

[Richard Mott]

Thanks to both of you for this info and direction. I did notice a difference between the sound of the 5C that Chris Thile played versus the one played by Sarah Jarosz. The latter sounded brighter my ears, a bit more sparkle perhaps. I had put that down to technique or strings or recording spot, but it does make sense that they are two different instruments. Both were great, though!

[AlanN]

What little I know of that model is I believe a quartet was crafted for Butch and the NME in the 90's: mandolins, mandola, mandocello. To see and hear them all on stage at one time was striking.

[lonestar_shawn]

I played one of the Gilchrist classical models at Carter's about a month ago. I'm not sure if that was the one Sarah was playing or the one Thile was playing. I'm probably not the most qualified person to give a tone opinion but to me it sounded dark. It was a very cool sound but very different from what I think of as a typical bluegrass mandolin sound.

[josh a]

The Gilchrist Classical models are carved a bit differently (top/back) and the aperture of the f-holes is in fact different than Steve's standard Model 5. Everything else stated above is correct, as well. He carved them with a different purpose in mind, tonally. They sound great. I've played two F-5s (both mentioned in this thread) as well as the mandola from the original run for the NME (that's the one in the Thile video) and they are all very special instruments.

[peter.coombe]

I have a 2000 Model 3 Classical that I ordered from Steve direct. It is made from Engelmann Spruce and Red Maple and is certainly a fine sounding mandolin, as are the other Classical models I have come across. Pictures are on my web site. See -
http://petercoombe.com/highquality11.html
http://petercoombe.com/highquality12.html

I still have the Gilchrist catalogue from that time and quote from the catalogue -

"The CLASSICAL is designed with a lower air resonant frequency and softer maple back and rim to produce a rich mellow voicing. This style is finished in a deep amber varnish, black binding, black chrome hardware, cam clamp pickguard bracket and ebony tuner buttons, giving an understated violin like appearance."

So the standard configuration was Engelmann Spruce and Red Maple, although I don't think all of them have that configuration. Mine has a two piece back, some of the others are one piece back, and as far I know all are X braced. Looks like only one more Classical model was made after mine.

[josh a]

Beautiful, thanks for sharing Peter!

[sgarrity]

Last year Carmel Music had one that was red spruce with tone bars. It's the only one like that I've heard about. Dexter said it was a killer Gil.

[Jim M.]

Evan Marshall plays one that I've seen up close. Evan says it was designed for lighter strings, which facilitates his duo-style playing.

[Adam Sweet]

I think it's just a brand. There's no such thing as a classical mandolin to my knowledge

[Jim Garber]

I have a 2000 Model 3 Classical that I ordered from Steve direct. It is made from Engelmann Spruce and Red Maple and is certainly a fine sounding mandolin, as are the other Classical models I have come across. Pictures are on my web site. See -
http://petercoombe.com/highquality11.html
http://petercoombe.com/highquality12.html

I still have the Gilchrist catalogue from that time and quote from the catalogue -

"The CLASSICAL is designed with a lower air resonant frequency and softer maple back and rim to produce a rich mellow voicing. This style is finished in a deep amber varnish, black binding, black chrome hardware, cam clamp pickguard bracket and ebony tuner buttons, giving an understated violin like appearance."

So the standard configuration was Engelmann Spruce and Red Maple, although I don't think all of them have that configuration. Mine has a two piece back, some of the others are one piece back, and as far I know all are X braced. Looks like only one more Classical model was made after mine.

Thanks, Peter... I was just going to ask if Steve made any Classical A models. That is a true beauty for sure. I wonder if and how he would make an oval hole one -- perhaps with different bracing?

[sgarrity]

There's this one. I don't know what's under the hood though.

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gilchrist/serial/03-542

[Jim Garber]

Oh, man, Shaun, that is a real beauty. Time to start saving my pennies.

[Richard Mott]

Peter--This is just a fantastic bit of information. Thanks so much for contributing it. And lovely mandolin, by the way! --Richard

[AubreyK]

Oh, man, Shaun, that is a real beauty. Time to start saving my pennies.

You might throw some nickels, dimes, and quarters into the jar, too...

[blauserk]

There's this one. I don't know what's under the hood though.

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gilchrist/serial/03-542

My old 4C! Spectacular sounding instrument. I might buy it back if the current owner ever decides to part with it. Top was Englemann; not sure about the back.

[mando on the side]

My friend ended up purchasing the one that Thile played on the youtube video. We also played the one the Sarah Jarosz played on a different video a year and a half ago before the Carter's store opened. The two sounded very different; in person the one that Thile played was darker, rounder, more complex from what I remember. It was as if the lows and highs had an F4 sound and the mids sounded like and F5, but on steroids. I really like the sound of the F5C's. They weren't very percussive and had almost no chop, so definitely not a bluegrass machine.

Besides Peter Coombe's explaination, I'm not really sure why they're called classical models; as they sound way different than the bowlbacks that classical players use.

[mtucker]

Besides Peter Coombe's explaination, I'm not really sure why they're called classical models; as they sound way different than the bowlbacks that classical players use.

I believe the term 'classical' is equally a visual reference as it is the type of music it was intended for, but I may be mistaken.

[Jim Garber]

Besides Peter Coombe's explaination, I'm not really sure why they're called classical models; as they sound way different than the bowlbacks that classical players use.

Not to get in too deep as to what classical players use but I would hardly say that bowlbacks are the predominant style of mandolin even among classical players. Tho there are prob more players of bowlbacks these days I know that in North American classical players there are few folks that play bowlbacks as they main performance instruments. Even among the bowlbacks (vintage or contemporary) there are some big differences in tonal qualities, say, between Neapolitan styles, Roman/Embergher styles and the German styles.

I would say that SG was basically voices his classical models for a different tone from his other mandolins the same way that Rolfe Gerhardt voices his Neo-Classical models. Maybe less bright, more mellow with more sustain.

[JeffD]

I am thinking that "classical" is meant to denote "not bluegrass" or maybe even "not a Gibson sound" - if so it is ironic because the iconic bluegrass mandolin was for classical music back in the day.

I can think of many types of mandolin ensembles, classical among them, in which that iconic percussive F5 sound would not be appropriate, and would indeed stick out. But...

I am not sure it would even be noticed by the general musical public. After listening to a considerable amount of bluegrass and especially to mandolins in a bluegrass context, "the sound" tends to pop out for me, and it would be disruptive in certain contexts. But would it pop out for most non mandolin people? I don't think so.

[Pete Jenner]

Oh, man, Shaun, that is a real beauty. Time to start saving my pennies.

No Jim no. You are going to finish your kit and then embark on your scratch build, you don't need the Gilchrist. Watch the watch ...watch the watch...w

[Jim Garber]

Peter: you are right! I can't possibly buy anything ever again until...

[Pete Jenner]

Your scratch build will sound way better than any Gilthingy anyway.