revamping a already good mandolin

[Markelberry]

Irecently traded for a1996 Flatiron Choclate F5. I think its a good sounding mandolin. I am however thinkin about running it down to Sim Daley and have him look it over and see what he might do to amp it up. I was thinking a thinning of the laquer maybe even shaving tone bars a bit ,it has a new James tailpiece and new pearl nut and bridge. Just curious on folks thought on those kinds alterations? I had Charlie Derrington do some mods like this to a old Ibanez I had and it really improed the tone and sustain. The laquer was pretty heavy on that mandolin and he shaved the tone bars too made a big difference,I guess Ill let the expert make the final decision. Any opinions?

[Mike Snyder]

Been in exactly that situation. You have a well-made, very desirable instrument that is good but not exciting. What I did, what I'd do now, play it hard until you'e worn out AT LEAST one set of frets. A trip to the luthier can't hurt, either.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Before you do anything 'radical' to the mandolin,why not try some different strings & / or a different pick. I'd used J74's on my Weber Fern for 8 years then i tried a set of DR MD11 mediums on it, & the sheer power of it increased 100% without any loss of tone either.The DR Brand had a similar effect on my Lebeda although i had to go to 'heavies' on that for them to work their magic.A set of strings is a very inexpensive way of trying to make your mandolin 'sound' better (more pleasing) & if they don't work for you,there's little lost. I honestly never thought my Weber could ever sound as good as it does now with just changing string brands. It's worth a try,
Ivan

[Markelberry]

Ive tried different strings and I like silk and bronze havent tried exp 74 think thats whats on my Gibsons and they sound good. I use a variety of picks from bluechip to McCray to proplec and wegen the mandolin sounds great,I was just thinkin thinning the finish a bit might loosen the top plate up a little more,it is a little heavier than my A9 or F9 maybe due to the mortise and tenon neck joint? Thanks for the replies,wont do anything to quick but play it hard and let someone smarter than me look it over and see if its got room for improvement

[Bill Snyder]

I have never heard anything about Flatirons (the USA built) having a thick finish. Does one appear to have an unusually thick finish on it? If not I wouldn't mess with the lacquer.

[mandotrout777]

I was in this same situation with a Flatiron recently. I had a little work done on it, although nothing as major as what you're talking about here. Tried different strings, picks, etc. etc. Thought about just playing it hard for a year or two, but decided it would probably have little effect because the one I bought was 13 years old and had clearly been played a bit already. Ultimately I just traded it for something else and was only really "out" the money I'd spent having that little bit of work done. If you have something done to the finish, that could have a significant effect on the value and diminish your potential to recoup your money if you decide to move it along later. I'd recommend leaving the finish alone. I don't think the Flatirons built in either Bozeman or Nashville are known to have unnecessarily thick finishes.

[multidon]

I am always dubious when folks talk about doing something like this. The tone of any mandolin is made up of so many different variables it is next to impossible to isolate one or two that will make a difference. You could put the money into thinning the finish and the tone bars and maybe it will make a difference. It it does the difference will be subtle. It is much more likely you wasted your time and money and it will make no difference at all.

To me an instrument is what it is. If the tone doesn't float your boat why not sell it to someone who likes it more and use the money to buy something that you already like the tone of without having to mess around with it?

[Markelberry]

The finish is not in appearance heavy looking and I would not do anything just because I thought I should. I only thought that an expert like Sim might yeah or nay that nything more than a different setup frets etc might be the tool to get the most from it. It really sounds good and has barely been played since 1996. I wasnt sure what has been learned since this mandolin was built and was just curious if finish and size and or shape of tone bars could be adjusted? And maybe get more out of it. I am curious it has a new pearl nut my Gibsons have bone and pearl is definately brighter,anyone favor one over the other? The bone seems drier and I like that as well.

[multidon]

Nut material only affects the tone when the string is open. When you play mostly fingered strings what the nut is made of really doesn't matter. That being said, yes, pearl is brighter. Bone seems to be the most popular material for mandolin by far.

[J.Albert]

Markelberry wrote above:
[[ I was thinking a thinning of the laquer maybe even shaving tone bars a bit ,it has a new James tailpiece and new pearl nut and bridge. Just curious on folks thought on those kinds alterations? ]]

Do this, and you'll RUIN the value of the mandolin if you ever want to sell it.

Consider: what, if after all this, you don't like "the change" in the sound? What if it sounded better -before- the alterations?

I wouldn't want a Flatiron that had been messed with like that.
Flatirons are fine mandolins "just the way they are".
I own two of 'em...

My opinion only, others' may be different...

[John Hill]

Mike Marshall & Todd Phillips took a screwdriver to his Loar & removed the virzi. Then he had Moneleone remove the back & to do some regraduations...thought it took too much work to get sound out if it.

So...you can successfully have work done to your mando BUT I would only do it if I was only trying to bring out more of what was already there and you weren't worried about resale.

[Eldon Dennis]

I'm not an expert by any means, but on my Flatiron F5 Master the one thing that has made the biggest improvement in the tone, volume and sustain was the installation of a properly fitting bridge. Finding the "sweet spot" location and the material and compensation of the bridge appear to be fairly critical. I now also have a full contact bridge rather than the "two footed" one that came on the mandolin. However, this mandolin is cross braced rather than tone bars.

My point is that working with the bridge is not all that expensive and it's all reversible. You can always put the original back on.

[Willie Poole]

Shaving tone bars and removing some of the finish just may make the mandolin sound worse, I did both to one that I own and I am still doing work on it to get back to what it used to sound like...I`m not sure any luthier can tell what the final outcome will be before doing a job like that....As stated above, Flatirons are about as good as they will ever be when they are first made....Ivan posted some good advice about strings and picks but you say you have already tried them so it is a guessing game now....

Willie

[allenhopkins]

1. Never hurts to have an expert look at your instrument, perhaps make suggestions.

2. That said, the kinds of renovations you're considering, are pretty much irrevocable, and if you don't find them to be improvements, you're SOL, as they say. I used to work for a dealer who often "voiced" newer (but used) Martin guitars, scalloping the braces to make them closer to the older pre-war configuration. He would only do this on guitars he owned, never on a customer's instrument, because he couldn't "take back" the changes that the work produced.

3. Generally concur that it's better to trade off an instrument whose tone you aren't crazy about, for one that you prefer -- rather than trying to re-work the instrument.

4. Maybe a Tone Gard? Have you tried that?

[Markelberry]

Not going to do anything but maybe have it set up different ,sounds great but Im thinking I might need some fret work different bridge it plays a little hard,but when you lean into it does a fine job, I just want it play a little easier and try and get a little quicker response out of it ,so maybe all in a good pro set up . I can already tell its a keeper so whatever happens it stays here'

[Steve Lavelle]

I advise restraint. Especially since you already have 4 mandolins that no doubt have different sounds.

The only things I've had done to my '93 Flatiron F was to re-fret with SS when I wore out the original frets, and replace the top piece of the bridge with a Fishman so that I would have a pickup. ran the wire through the body and had a tailpiece connector put in. Kept the original bottom of the bridge because the contact is excellent. Will probably get rid of the Fishman, put the original bridge piece back in place, and install twin JJB piezos under the sound board. Always hated that wire across the top. I've been tempted to do a scoop on the fret board, but that just looks wrong to me even if it means I tap it occasionally with my pick. I only have the one mandolin, so mine is showing a bit of wear and tear, but since I'll only sell it if I am physically unable to play it anymore, that isn't too import ant to me.