Musical loners?

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I don't think I'm actually an introvert - I'm sort of a shy extrovert. But I think it's important to differentiate between the natural need of creative individuals (such as yourselves) to have periods of solitude from the type of introversion that leads us to stay in the basement rather than get out and play with others. I've recently been invited to play with some friends, and I really didn't feel ready (I posted about this in another thread - and thank you mandocafe for your help!) and was quite anxious about it. I still kind of am, but I'll be damned if I'm not going to do it. But I've been really focused on getting a few tunes down reasonably well - and I've made progress in the last few days that has honestly surprised me. I feel like I can probably survive at least a few tunes now, and I never would have focused on some serious flaws in my playing if I hadn't accepted the invitation. Amazing what the prospect of being hanged in the morning can do to your focus....

So, while I understand being an introvert can be really hard to overcome, I also wonder whether you'd be an ever stronger and more competent muscian in the long run for having forced yourself to do so.

[stevedenver]

I think so. Music is to some extent, a discipline.

[JeffD]

I would never tell anyone you have to overcome being an introvert. Never. Its probably impossible anyway. I am not convinced, especially after reading the book mentioned by Susan Cain, I am not convvinced it is any better to be an extrovert.

I think one of the things that binds musicians is the shared experience of striving to play better, alone, at home, away from everyone. We all do this, we all have to do this, and it is a kind of shared "trauma" that binds us together. We are together in understanding first hand our necessarily separate experiences.

[Richard58]

I used to get out to pick a lot, but enjoy staying home picking with CDs and jam tracks a lot more now.

[Ellen T]

I'm not an introvert, in fact I had a reputation when I was working for spending too much time socializing with my colleagues, and I'm not at all shy around strangers. I'm not always nice to them, but I'm not shy around them . My not wanting to play with others has nothing to do with the social aspect; it's just something that I do not want to share. It's Gollumism.

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I would never tell anyone you have to overcome being an introvert.

I should have been more precise. I meant that it may be beneficial to a person's progress as a musician to overcome those elements of the introverted personality that prevent him/her from playing with others. Obviously, if it's a fundamental part of a person's character, it's probably not something they should try to change - rather they should embrace it.

[bayAreaDude]

I don't think I'm actually an introvert - I'm sort of a shy extrovert. But I think it's important to differentiate between the natural need of creative individuals (such as yourselves) to have periods of solitude from the type of introversion that leads us to stay in the basement rather than get out and play with others. I've recently been invited to play with some friends, and I really didn't feel ready (I posted about this in another thread - and thank you mandocafe for your help!) and was quite anxious about it. I still kind of am, but I'll be damned if I'm not going to do it. But I've been really focused on getting a few tunes down reasonably well - and I've made progress in the last few days that has honestly surprised me. I feel like I can probably survive at least a few tunes now, and I never would have focused on some serious flaws in my playing if I hadn't accepted the invitation. Amazing what the prospect of being hanged in the morning can do to your focus....

So, while I understand being an introvert can be really hard to overcome, I also wonder whether you'd be an ever stronger and more competent muscian in the long run for having forced yourself to do so.

It's unfortunate that an introvert would feel the need to 'overcome' who they are. That really leads to much stress and unhappiness. Susan Cain's book delves into this much deeper, but the gist is that an introvert is a much more content and happy person if they value who they are, and highly, rather than seeing their basic nature as a liability to overcome. Introverts definitely need to push themselves in various ways as a minority in an extrovert culture, particularly in the states, but embracing being an introvert (realizing your unique needs, making sure they get met) works much better that attempting to overcome it. Many famous performers and musicians are introverts, so it's not something that needs to prevent you from achieving those goals, if you have those goals. Being shy is a much different thing, though it can look the same from the outside.

[JoeyJoeJoe]

It's unfortunate that an introvert would feel the need to 'overcome' who they are.

See my comment above yours. I wasn't clear, and I apologize.

[Tom Smart]

I know a few people I wish would overcome being extroverts.

One good thing about having a lot of musicians in my circle of friends: Often, when I'm at a party and the small talk is driving me up the wall, I can find a couple of musicians and say, "let's pick."

Music is the perfect way for introverts to socialize without, you know, socializing.

[Brandon Sumner]

The only downside, as far as I can see, to being a musical loner, is that it will take greater discipline and drive to keep at the instrument. In some cases much much greater.

I agree with this statement, and it is the biggest struggle I face musically, I am very much the introvert, do wish I could find a group to play with though.

[Ellen T]

I know a few people I wish would overcome being extroverts.

One good thing about having a lot of musicians in my circle of friends: Often, when I'm at a party and the small talk is driving me up the wall, I can find a couple of musicians and say, "let's pick."

Music is the perfect way for introverts to socialize without, you know, socializing.

Maybe it all comes down to comfort levels with different groups of people. Back in the '60s nearly everyone I knew played an instrument of some sort, and after I quit band (I played string bass but they wanted me to alternate on tuba, ick), I bought a recorder and drifted into a Baroque recorder club with some friends. I assumed that out in the real world, most of the people I would meet would play an instrument, and I am still in shock at how few adults I have known that do play one. If I had run into fellow music-makers decades ago, I might have hooked up with some, but at my current age (retired) I don't feel the need to fit some strange new people into my life when I am content to do music on my own.

[Ellen T]

The only downside, as far as I can see, to being a musical loner, is that it will take greater discipline and drive to keep at the instrument. In some cases much much greater.

I agree with this statement, and it is the biggest struggle I face musically, I am very much the introvert, do wish I could find a group to play with though.

Maybe this is why I never refer to myself as a musician, just as a player or a hobbyist. I enjoy the heck out of playing, but I don't feel the need to aim to keep up with the pros. Most bowlers will never have perfect games, most golfers will never make the pro circuit, most painters will not get their work into a museum or gallery. Doesn't mean they can't still enjoy it at their own level without making themselves nuts over not advancing at some arbitrary pace. If I am better today than I was last month or last year, that is good; if I'm the same, I can live with it.

And once I stopped differentiating between "practice" and "playing" I found I was spending MORE time doing it.

[f5joe]

Does that include getting together for a jam, or just performing. Jams can be pretty welcoming. Old time, blue grass, country, folk sing along, etc.

Yes, jams. Finding folks at your own skill level willing to pick is very difficult.

[Steve Zawacki]

When I feel I need to be alone, I get a far away look in my eye, pick up my mandolin, and begin to play.

Everyone leaves.

Works like a charm.

Especially if I decide to sing at the same time.....

[Charles E.]

The Introvert Song..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_8UkYshoGQ

And an anthem........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L2MVUmonyQ

Great thread.

[OldSausage]

When you pick with extroverts, what happens? Blah blah blah, this guy I know, my surgery, the cable company etc. All night long. Around 3am, oh, I guess let's pick one.

I'm all for introverts, they get down to business. I just wish they'd get out more.

[Ivan Kelsall]

A 'true' extrovert is actually the 'most' introverted of all. Their extrovert behaviour is all a 'put on'. If they're totally shunned by folk who get sick of their behaviour,sit back & watch 'em crumble. Extroverts thrive on 'being noticed & being the centre of attention' & when all that goes,they're lost,something i find profoundly sad. There's also a difference between somebody who's an 'extrovert' & the 'common braggart',a dispicable species whom i do my very best to avoid. They're the one who usually can't play for ***t & have a hugely expensive instrument to brandish in front of folk in order to prove the fact - we've all met them. OS's example seems to be more in their character than an 'extrovert proper'. Extroverts can be calmed down if asked to do so,but a braggart just 'has to brag',how else would they get noticed ?.
Years back at a Bluegrass festival over here in the UK,i was part of a group jamming away,when a guy rolled up with a beautiful Monteleone "F" style which he told us had once belonged to David Grisman. How true this was we didn't know, but he all but thrust it up our noses to prove the point. He then joined in & proceeded to totally screw us all up. The guy couldn't play a lick,but he had a nice mandolin. Maybe for him,that was all that was required to make the grade,& believe me,i've met many others like him over the years,
Ivan

[Petrus]

Agree with a lot of what's been said here ... and a lot has been said so I'm not sure how to approach this.

Playing for yourself is as legitimate as playing around anyone else. Ultimately, you only have yourself to satisfy -- or not. Even some great professional performers have confessed to being basically shy individuals, and that they struggle to get themselves up for each performance. It's sort of a release valve for super-introverts, maybe.

I'm introverted to an extreme extent, yet also make public outbursts from time to time, usually at the most inopportune time. I've evolved from playing alone to playing to accompany local gatherings of friends -- I'm doing something tomorrow night, in fact -- though I like to think of myself as providing background accompaniment to gatherings that would otherwise lack music altogether. So far, I haven't had any friends politely excuse themselves, so I can't be too bad. I haven't jammed yet; I think I'd find the competitiveness daunting. (An acquaintance of mine plays drums -- or thinks he does -- but he smashes them like Bonham and has no sense of what a "jam" is supposed to be; the last time he and I played in the same room, he on the drums and me with my fiddle, I just gave up as he was making no efforts to moderate his dynamics or keep a rhythm with me at all.)

I find the mando and fiddle to be relaxing and meditative, and musically challenging, on an intellectual level; instruments make my brain go to different areas and use different neurons than usual, opening up new channels. And so far it's kept me from picking up my .22, which is about my only other alternative right now. So I'm grateful for that. No audience required.

[Beanzy]

Back in the late '80s I used to go to totally isolated spots to play and practice my tin whiste or recorders. Up in the Mountains of Vizcaya/ Gipuzkoa or in Wicklow were favourites.

The headland above Plentzia used to be great. Loads of people a mile or so away but solitude there looking down on it all.


The thing is when you've got music you don't need to be with people. You can be, but you don't need to be.

[Caleb]

Great thread.

I'm a husband and dad before anything else, so for someone like me it's not possible to get involved in a once a week kind of playing deal. Some weeks go by when I don't even have 10 minutes to pick up an instrument. I would love to find someone who plays guitar that enjoys the old music I like to play. To me a guitar/mando duo is just so nice to hear. But I don't know anyone like that and have largely given up on finding anyone like that. So I sit with my tune books and just enjoy being able to play and create music.

I've gone out to festivals and things and they can be fun. But the older I get, the less I like flashy playing and so many out there are just flashy players. I can't play like that and don't even want to anymore anyway.

I think there's a whole other aspect to "performing" or playing for/in front of others that has been created by music becoming a celebrity thing. Once upon a time a lot of people owned instruments and played, and it was common to go to someone's home and play/sing together. But now there is a world accustomed to what they hear on radio/CD, etc. It creates a lot of pressure when someone sees you have a guitar and wants to hear all their favorite songs played just like they're used to hearing them. I'm a decent guitarist but if I can't play every song the average fellow wants to hear (and often only bits of it that make it recognizable before they lose interest) then "I suck." This kills a lot of the joy of sharing music.

[Steve Zawacki]

I'm not sure the introvert/extrovert labels are appropriate. There are some things I do that are quite public, and include speaking before large audiences. There are other things I do that are private, mainly because there are times I'm honestly sick of being around people. Those folk who have spent a large part of their lives in people-intensive businesses and such sometimes just want solitude to help recharge the mental/physical batteries.

Times, situations and conditions change. The day may come when the desire to participate in "group music" returns, but until then I'm quite happy sitting in the back yard, serenading my dogs, the birds and the occasional butterfly. That's all the audience I can tolerate at this time. I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

[TonyP]

The first 10yrs I played, I played guitar and never played with anybody just practicing alone. I couldn't even think about how I would play with somebody, it was so scary and daunting. And could never play in front of anybody. Still can't if it's solo.

Then while at aircraft school and living on less than $200 a month(!) a friend from class played guitar so he talked me into picking with him. None of us had any $$ and had little to do outside of class because the curriculum was such you didn't have time for a job. So you had to find cheap entertainment and we did it by picking.

I became the phantom roomate as there was already 3 guys jammed into a 2 bedroom apt. and I lived in a trailer outside of town. Most of the complex was students. Some were in our rotation and the rest either before us or behind us in rotation.

He was what I'd call a natural extrovert. He didn't do it for the attention, he just had been in so many situations(many life and death, like being a waist gunner on a Huey in Vietnam) he just had to live the day to day stuff to the fullest. He really didn't care what other people thought. I came to realize I could shield myself behind him as we'd get together after another tough week of practicals and exams and just lose myself in the music. Music has always been my escape whether listening or later when able to play it. So when the rest of the guys would come wandering in looking for something to do, it was always a party if we were pickin'.

Because we came from totally different worlds he taught me Bluegrass and folk. I taught him some jazz. He was a great singer and rhythm player. I got pushed in ways I'd never have done on my own. I learned how to sing while playing, and sing harmony. We both got that what we did together was greater than the sum of the parts.

The last semester of school I was able to get my first mandolin and that changed everything. I couldn't even practice somewhere without being asked to come and pick with people I didn't know. The whole time I played guitar I never had a problem being by myself. Ever since I got a mandolin I have only gone once without being in a band and that was because I quit playing for 4yrs.

I HATE to perform. And only after almost 40yrs of being on stage with bands have I gotten to where I can most times relax enough to where I can have some fun. The only thing that keeps me going with it is the inspiration of doing the stuff I can't do alone. And I've made peace with the fact that the great front men/women I've been lucky to play with over the years are extroverts. So sooner or later you have to play out, or they leave. Even though most times those wonderful musical moments where the vocals give me a chill or I play some break that I have no clue where it came from, never happens on stage. It has been my refuge from the pressures of family, work and life.

Yes, my name is Tony and I'm a introvert and a music junky.

[John Lloyd]

Simple question; complicated answer (at least in my case).

Short version: In most ways I fit the introvert profile--INTP, if that Meyers-Briggs stuff is any more valid than a tabloid's astrology column--solidly. Thus it's a bit odd that I don't necessarily mind being in front of a couple thousand people.

Being in a crowd, on the other hand, skeeves me right out of my socks. The difference between a crowd and a mob is just one wrong stimulus. Small groups, say anywhere up to a few dozen, are less of a problem.

For the most part I enjoy jamming. I find real-time musical interaction much easier than real-time verbal, for lifelong reasons which may well be neurological and which I won't go into right here. On the other hand I love solo musical exploration, to the point where 3 or 4 hours feel more like 20 minutes. Mood has a lot to do with it. Lots of people in this forum could probably say the same.

So I'm not really antisocial or classically agoraphobic; 'selectively gregarious' is a better way of putting it.

John Flynn and JeffD, thank you for your posts in this thread. Now I've got another book to add to my wishlist.

[John Lloyd]

Wow, good topic.

My take, short version: In most ways I fit the introvert profile--INTP, if that Meyers-Briggs stuff is any more valid than a tabloid's astrology column--solidly. Thus it's a bit odd that I don't necessarily mind being in front of a couple thousand people.

Being in a crowd, on the other hand, skeeves me right out of my socks. The difference between a crowd and a mob is just one wrong stimulus. Small groups, say anywhere up to a few dozen, are less of a problem.

For the most part I enjoy jamming. I find real-time musical interaction much easier than real-time verbal, for lifelong reasons which may well be neurological and which I won't go into right here. On the other hand I love solo musical exploration, to the point where 3 or 4 hours feel more like 20 minutes. Mood has a lot to do with it. Lots of people in this forum could probably say the same.

So I'm not really antisocial or classically agoraphobic; 'selectively gregarious' is a better way of putting it.

John Flynn and JeffD, thank you for your posts in this thread. Now I've got another book to add to my wishlist.

[Jim]

Music is one of the few things I am comfortable doing socially. That said I play by myself a lot. Like the OP I find I need significant recovery time from social activities. I am an introvert and shy and live alone in a cabin in the mountains 20 miles from a small town. I love it that way But I go to town to a jam once a week, play music with friends at other times and pick up jobs playing music both solo and with others, and enjoy it. I just need a few days alone to recover. Playing music both gives me a reason to be social and something to do while I am being social since I am terrible at small talk. It also gives me something to do when i'm alone. Pretty much a win win situation