Musical loners?

[tangleweeds]

I didn't want to hijack new member Ellen's intro thread, but it made me wonder how many other musical loners there were out there. Quoting from that other thread,

For all you younger, newer hermits: If it's how you truly want to approach your playing, that's cool, but be careful of letting it become a habit if you're just procrastinating joining in with others.

Being new but not so young anymore, I'm afraid I'm a prime example of the introvert/extrovert indicator: Does being around other people energize or exhaust you? Even spending much time with the people I love most tires me out enough that I'm useless for hours after, and interacting a group of people leaves me completely frazzled. I have decent social skills and am blessed with many wonderful friends... it just exhausts me to spend too much time with them.

Instead, I love nothing more than a day that I know I shall get to spend completely alone, because I can do intensive quality time with writing music, writing, or other recreational autodidactery.

Music-specific content: I think this may have something to do with why I've always had such horrible luck over the years with music lessons. Somehow, having another person attempting to interact with me when I'm attempting to interact with my musical instrument short-circuits my relationship with said instrument. I lose all enjoyment in playing that particular instrument, which can last for months or even years, and end up picking up another instrument to get my musical fix.

So are there other musical loners out there? How has this trait shaped your musical experience?

[Tobin]

In real life (not necessarily on the web), I'm extremely introverted. I absolutely refuse to go to places like shopping malls, crowded concerts, or other places where I'm around too many people. It makes me want to flee, screaming. So I wonder if I actually have a mild degree of agoraphobia along with my introvert personality. Suffice it to say I ain't much of a people person or a party pleaser.

I have actually found that music forces me to want to be around others to share my passion. So it's actually a good tool, and a good medium for social interaction. But yes, it causes a lot of anxiety and wears me out. I virtually never stay for the full duration of a jam. And at weekend festivals or acoustic camp type events, I just can't make it to the evening jams. I have to get away and recharge by being alone, or at home with my wife.

Silly as it may sound, even when I go to the weekly jam with folks I've known for at least a year, and who are very encouraging, I find my hands shaking and my armpits sweating profusely. Not because I'm necessarily nervous around them. In fact, I'm quite comfortable around them. It's just how I react to being in a group. I don't know if I'll ever really 'cure' myself of it, but hopefully the love of music with others will override most of it.

[bayAreaDude]

If your objective is to make money as a professional musician or to advance as quickly as possible, you're probably missing out on essential opportunities, but otherwise, I don't see anything at all wrong with playing solely for your own enjoyment by yourself. Playing with strangers holds no appeal whatsoever to me - I played in a band 20 or so years ago and haven't since - just too much hassle. The only people I ever play with are my kids and that's just because I want to teach them and they're always home.

[bohemianbiker]

...Instead, I love nothing more than a day that I know I shall get to spend completely alone, because I can do intensive quality time with writing music, writing, or other recreational autodidactery.

This describes me a lot. I really like a day when I can just be by myself. But I find that at times I can go too far in this direction, and music helps me socialize. I can enjoy sitting and talking to complete strangers about music, instruments, musicians etc. But in other contexts, I find the small talk exhausting. Or I sometimes feel too tired at the end of the day to go to rehearsal for my orchestra, but then when I get there I thoroughly enjoy the music and friendship. I find music a great way to relate to people. bb

[JeffD]

The only downside, as far as I can see, to being a musical loner, is that it will take greater discipline and drive to keep at the instrument. In some cases much much greater.

Music teachers report that one of the best indicators of future retention (teacher retaining the student and student staying with the instrument) is regular playing with other people.

Outside of music, I am very introverted. Music is my socializing. I am not saying I deliberately went about using music to instigate and motivate a social life. It just seems to have worked out that way. (Those who know me know that when out and about, but not playing music, I will likely be found alone at a diner reading over coffee.)

Also, as has been said - be sure of your motives. Joining a jam is a bump to get over. Even now, with years of jamming experience, I am reluctant for a moment to go out and play. I have to push myself just about ever time. Avoiding it is immediately rewarded by a reduction in anxiety.

Playing alone because you'd rather, is fine by me. I will miss playing with you. Playing alone because you haven't gotten over the bump, hmmmm, thats a different scenario.

[Ellen T]

What a relief to know there are others like me. I love playing, but for me it is strictly a hobby and not a path to anything else. I don't even like to play around my family, so I get a little too happy when I'm home alone. I'm already trying to figure out out-of-the-house suggestions for my hubby when he retires so I can retain my playing time. Sometimes it feels like I am having a mando affair, being too secretive in my time with it, and the rush I get knowing that it is something just for me and that I don't have to share it. Or, I am just a perv.

[Steve Zawacki]

I'm another who just enjoys playing for the sake of playing - not a career, not a moneymaker, not of "bondng" experience and not a problem. Occassionally a mini-jam with granddaughter-guitarist is fine, but that's about it. The time for being in a band, participating at festivals or anything close to it has gone by for me. Music is now a totally relaxing experience, and anything which can add any stress to it is avoided at all costs.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate and admire those with the discipline to perform in public. The level of practice and rehearsal necessary to do it right is much more than retiree-me wants to commit. Those who do it get a sincere tip-of-the-hat from me.

It's fun being a musical amateur who is only into it all for personal pleasure. Keeping it "fun" makes it a joy.

[stevedenver]

I post this not as a criticism, but more as reminder that there's a lot to be learned.

I too can be a loner, but, mostly out of convenience.
And I too love getting lost in my music. Very internal.

It can be pita to travel to play at times, at some jam in the boonies, coordinating with other players, etc., and lets face it, you may not click , socially or musically with everyone. And its not all 'productive time'. Dealing with others musically is an exercise/skill/discipline in itself.


I think, by not playing with others, you are missing many essentials of music.
not the least of which are:
music as an in the moment performance/delivery-ie unique each and every time. I try to keep this in mind when i play. It often dazzles me, as sometimes a song is superb, and other times its almost train wreck. Same guy on mando playing with the same folks, playing songs I really know. Serendipity or oblivion on any give day. Maybe not immediately noticeable from outside, but it is from inside.

There are music skills that are unique and can only be developed , imho, by playing with others; timing, listening, adapting, improvising, on demand delivery. I am convinced that it develops part of you musical brain that nothing else can, not playing to backing tracks etc.

One can work and play alone nicely and possibly achieve a lot, but, playing with others is only learned by doing so, imho.
I love playing alone, but its not the only way i play.

[TonyP]

Having observed the tests for Asperger I feel like I fall somewhere on the mild end of the scale. My son is more towards the other end. What that did at first when I got into playing mandolin was give me an obsession that overrode my introverted nature. But as that passion lessened it's gotten harder and harder to make myself go to concerts and I've completely given up on jams and festivals. I'd rather comb my hair with a cheese grater while chewing on a ball of tin foil. I can't take the tension.

But playing in a stable band setting lets my obsessive nature overcome the introvert. I'm long past being obsessed with the mandolin so playing in a band is the only thing that keeps me wanting to play. Otherwise I let my other passions take up my time.

For me I know it's not good to let my introvert nature rule my life. Life is short and I value playing music with my musical buddies way too much. My wife thinks I have a ton of friends. But they are all my music buddies. Not until I pointed out to her that the only place I connect with them is music did she get it's not exactly the same. Some folks I've known for decades and I don't know their last name, or what they do. But that doesn't mean we can't pick right up where we left off last time we picked.

Everybody has their own path, but if it weren't for playing mandolin I'd have never gotten dragged kicking and sweating into the wonderful wide world of the acoustic music community. It changed my life and it's not easy going against my nature but it's been for the good.

[f5joe]

Around these parts, if you pick "out" you'd better be good. People don't have much room for folks like me.

I've tried for five years to get a few people together just to informally pick once a week. Near impossible to find anyone interested.

[Jonathan Bailey]

While I am definitely an introverted person who needs time alone at the end of the day, I find I enjoy my instrument the most when I'm able to play with other people. I honestly don't think I'd still be playing if it weren't for the band I'm in. Something about being able to apply things I've learned to an actual band setting feels really rewarding. On the other hand, if you are content playing by yourself and for yourself, I don't see a problem. Getting outside of your comfort zone is good and all but everyone is wired differently.

[Steve Zawacki]

....I think, by not playing with others, you are missing many essentials of music.
not the least of which are:
music as an in the moment performance/delivery-ie unique each and every time. I try to keep this in mind when i play. It often dazzles me, as sometimes a song is superb, and other times its almost train wreck. Same guy on mando playing with the same folks, playing songs I really know. Serendipity or oblivion on any give day. Maybe not immediately noticeable from outside, but it is from inside.

There are music skills that are unique and can only be developed , imho, by playing with others; timing, listening, adapting, improvising, on demand delivery. I am convinced that it develops part of you musical brain that nothing else can, not playing to backing tracks etc.

One can work and play alone nicely and possibly achieve a lot, but, playing with others is only learned by doing so, imho.
I love playing alone, but its not the only way i play.

A lot depends on what your life outside of music is like. For most of my adult life every day involved major interactions with more folk than I'll ever remember, often in intense, demanding, sometimes chaotic and often combative situations. Being able to separate myself from my fellow man for some much needed peace and solitude was cherished time. Music as part of that time happened not often enough, but it did "soothe the savage...."

For folk who see their non-work time as an opportunity to interact with others, good for you. That's your choice and you deserve what pleasure you can get. For folk who see that same non-work time as an opportunity to escape from society for a while, that too is an earned choice.

There are folk who see music as a quest toward some quasi-quantifiable level of perfection, and attainment of that requires whatever it takes - study, lessons, new gear, jams, etc.. Conversely, there's folk like me who play to play, not as a stepping stone to another level, but for the pure, simple enjoyment of it all. I don't care if I get any better, acquire more knowledge in order to "graduate" to the next level, or become more skilled so I can say, "I can do that run just as good as ------." I'm happy to hear the sounds, relax my mind and heart, and be pleased that I have what I have.

The reasons folk are involved with music are legion, and all of them good and none should be criticized. This is not a one-size-fits-all world, no more than one-genre-is-best is true. Enjoy it all while you can (especially that $&@%# chord I can't reach) because life's too short.

[Mark Wilson]

There are music skills that are unique and can only be developed , imho, by playing with others; timing, listening, adapting, improvising, on demand delivery. I am convinced that it develops part of you musical brain that nothing else can, not playing to backing tracks etc.

Most of my musical instincts were gained playing bass in bands. I'm sure it's more true for mandolin. Stuff you never learn at home.

I have tried using craigslist and internet to find local groups to jam with. It has to be easier when you find folks playing at your current level. I'll wait until I get closer to their level to try that again. Not that i want to play everything at full tilt but it's the normal that I've found so far.

Pretty content playing alone tho. Doesn't involve planning or broken commitments. I pick the song and the speed. If I get bored with that I can take up the banjo.

[JeffD]

Around these parts, if you pick "out" you'd better be good. People don't have much room for...

Does that include getting together for a jam, or just performing. Jams can be pretty welcoming. Old time, blue grass, country, folk sing along, etc.

[Ellen T]

There are folk who see music as a quest toward some quasi-quantifiable level of perfection, and attainment of that requires whatever it takes - study, lessons, new gear, jams, etc.. Conversely, there's folk like me who play to play, not as a stepping stone to another level, but for the pure, simple enjoyment of it all. I don't care if I get any better, acquire more knowledge in order to "graduate" to the next level, or become more skilled so I can say, "I can do that run just as good as ------." I'm happy to hear the sounds, relax my mind and heart, and be pleased that I have what I have.

The reasons folk are involved with music are legion, and all of them good and none should be criticized. This is not a one-size-fits-all world, no more than one-genre-is-best is true. Enjoy it all while you can (especially that $&@%# chord I can't reach) because life's too short.

Steve Z., I feel like you have crawled into my head and articulated exactly what I think and feel about playing. I, too, spent years having to deal with pushy clients and ridiculous deadlines for them, and now that I am retired, I do not want any schedule or performance expectations imposed on me. This is something I do for myself and I can pick the songs I play and the style without having to compromise with anyone. It's total freedom for me. I don't care if I get better, as long as I can play the tunes I like and they sound right to me. It's truly "playing" - not working.

[Mandobart]

I fit the original posted definition of an introvert - I recharge alone vs with other people. I would find it worse to spend all my time with others as opposed to spending my time alone. I very much look forward to my weekdays off when my lovely and patient wife is at work and my daughter (truly my life's greatest blessing) is at school, so I can change strings, practice, try out new tunes, etc. I like most people; grew up in a large family, spent many years on a submarine with ~100 other guys (wait, i hated that), I like parties and have friends. But time alone is essential to what passes for sanity with me.

All that said, my favorite musical activity is playing music with other people. Music to me is best as a communal experience. And practically, my mandolin playing after 5 years is many levels above where my guitar playing was at 10 years. The difference is I learned guitar by playing and practicing alone. I learned mandolin by playing at jams and open mics several times each week, along with solo practice at home. So if you want to improve (and I have musical friends who really don't care to ever improve) you simply won't improve as quickly or as much by being a musical loner. I know that more competent I become, the more I like the sound of my own playing, the more I enjoy it. There are those as well who feel defeated after spending time with "better" players and it brings them down; if that's you then maybe its best not to be a communal player....

[John Flynn]

This is a great thread! My Myers Briggs scores (INTP) show me as far on the Introvert scale as you can go. I too hate crowds, shopping, lines to get into places and "open seating" workplaces, which as a consultant, is unfortunately what I'm in most of the time. Yet I have enjoyed being in bands, going to jams and I've played in church choirs continuously for over 35 years. I agree with Tobin that music is a great "bridge" for introverts to relate to other people.

I do think it provides its challenges. I like smaller groups rather than larger ones, although the choir I'm in now is huge. I deal with it by mentally relating more to the music than the people. I listen to what's going on and add my part, I hope tastefully. It's like I'm listening to a CD and playing along. I also prefer to sit on the edge of the group, not sandwiched in the middle. But on the other hand, I really don't like playing solo for an audience. I need to have at least one other instrumentalist playing with me to feel comfortable. I think four might be my ideal number.

A psychologist turned me on to a book I can recommend: "Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking" by Susan Cain. It makes two really good points IMHO: First, introverts have to plan for "quiet time" when doing extroverted activities. The book talks about a military officer who became a really powerful public speaker, but he was so introverted that he needed to go in a room by himself for 20 minutes before he could go out and speak.

Second, introverts can really benefit by selectively doing extroverted activities, while respecting their need to be alone. Extroverts are two-thirds of our world and even a lot of introverts are denying their introversion, running around every day miserably trying to be extroverts to fit in. I think it's all about knowing yourself and respecting who you really are.

[Astro]

When I feel I need to be alone, I get a far away look in my eye, pick up my mandolin, and begin to play.

Everyone leaves.

Works like a charm.

[nickster60]

I guess I am in the same boat as the rest. I don't know if I am a introvert, I am friendly and strike up a conversation quickly. I just find most people annoying. Most I find are petty,silly and just plan juvenile. I prefer just to not deal with all of the baloney. I did advance quickly when I belonged to a bluegrass assn. but it was a gossipy affair with lots of in-fighting. The more people I meet the more I appreciate my dog. If I need to recharge my batteries I like to go for a motorcycle ride,it seems to work the best for me.

[Carl Robin]

Introvert, extrovert--I don't want to define myself as either, it depends on the situation. The way I see it is we all have a cycle, moving towards, and away from interacting with other people. Both are rewarding, and have drawbacks. So we cycle in and out of other people's company. I practice alone, so that I can play better for and with other people. They don't need to listen to me struggling with unfamiliar music. A few errors are OK, perfection is too much to expect, from myself or others. I don't want complete self-absorbtion, that's lonely and limiting. Too much togetherness could be aggravating, tiring. Everyone has to find their own happy medium.

[JeffD]

A psychologist turned me on to a book I can recommend: "Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking" by Susan Cain..

I am glad, John, that you mention that book. It really is wonderful. And uniquely relevant to this particular thread. The author, Susan Cain, did a TED talk that brings it all together.

http://www.ted.com/talks/susan_cain_..._of_introverts

[Steve Ostrander]

I would join this introvert club, but I'm not a joiner I am not entirely comfortable with people one-on-one, but I do enjoy performing as part of a trio. Then, I tend to lose my intro and slide over to extro. I credit performing with helping me be more self-confident.

I have never performed solo, and probably never will. I need the support of my bandmates. I actually enjoy and look forward to our weekly practice sessions. So I guess I'm a split personality: mostly introverted but I do come out of my shell to perform. Stage fright isn't an issue for me. I do get anxious before a gig, but it's more like, "C'mon, let's go, I want to play!"

[Ivan Kelsall]

From f5joe - "Around these parts, if you pick "out" you'd better be good. People don't have much room for folks like me.". You need to move my friend !. I've been a 'bedroom picker' for over 35 years with the occassional excursion to a few UK Bluegrass festivals,now mostly 'gone',but i've never encountered a 'we don't have room for you culture'. That's pretty sad !.
Back in the '60's when i was playing banjo regularly,there were so manyplaces to play & so many musicians around,that i could kick up a 'scratch band' almost weekly. These days,months if not years go by without i'm able to play with more than one like-minded musician. It's purely the love of Bluegrass music that's kept me interested all these years. If all us 'loner' Banjo / mandolin / guitar pickers & fiddlers could get together some time,we'd be the 'next generation' of Trad. Bluegrass bands all on our own !!!,
Ivan

[JeffD]

Jamming culture is a small part of the world. Especially the modern world. For most people music has three parts:

listen to it.
play it in high school band.
play it with the ambition of becoming a star.

You even see that innaccurate understanding within the community of musicians. I know many, many guitarists whose main motivation, whether explicitly stated or not, is to become a star. If someone were to convince them "you will never be a star, you will never make more than gas money or be known beyond your friends and family for your music" - they would give up on the spot. There would be no enjoyment for them otherwise.


I bring this up to dissuade folks who may have perhaps adopted the false dichotomy "I don't want to perform so I play at home alone".

Jamming is another option. I hate performing. But I love playing, and I especially love jamming with others. For me, and for many with whom I play, there is no performance aspect, we do not seek an audience, we aren't looking to be listened too by anyone outside of our jam group. We respond to applause with embarrasment and to praise with deflection.

For many of us there is no competitive aspect. We go out of our way to encourage new players, and help each other with tips and tricks and encouragement, and work to play better for the love of playing better and for the love of the music. When one of us "nails it" the rest of us are genuinely happy. What little "showing off" there is comes off entirely good natured, like a child showing his parents his costume for the school play.

There is also an absence of "self expression". Its wonderful, really. We play expressively, absolutely, and value that in good playing, but we make no representation that it is us we are expressing, or that we even have something we need to express. If you were to decipher what we express in playing music, it would be something like "I love this tune, don't you love this tune, listen to this great tune, its a fun tune, here play it with me".

My point is that it is possible to seek to avoid performing, avoid showing off, avoid uncomfortably intimate expression, and still play with others regularly in a jam.

It is great to play at home alone, I do it a lot. And if you prefer it to playing with others thats ok. I am just pointing out that the alternative to playing alone at home may not as onerous as one might think, and you don't have to become an ambitious show off emoting a broken heart with killer licks in front of strangers, to play music regularly with friends.

[JeffD]

If all us 'loner' Banjo / mandolin / guitar pickers & fiddlers could get together some time,we'd be the 'next generation' of Trad. Bluegrass bands all on our own !!!,

We independants have to stick together.