Scordatura tuning for the mandolin

[Bernie Daniel]

The Italian word "scordatura" means wrong tuning (or mis-tuning), -- one source called it "cross-tuning".

The cross tuning I now about is the "saw mill" or open tuning where the open strings on the instrument make a chord or at least a double stop like ADad or GCgc.

In classical music this tuning was used to make some pieces easier to play. Not certain how it was applied but I guess the music notation is re-witten then the player notes the pieces as one would normally do but the pitch will be different (corrected) because of the way the strings are tuned?

Anyway, in the course of this reading I came across this scordatura tuning where the inner two strings are exchange between the tail piece and the saddle (see pic) to give a G g D d.

So who has tried this for mandolin and why?

[Amanda Gregg]

Woah, check that out. I've never seen that before. Thanks for the post.

[JeffD]

I keep one mandolin is A cross tuning (AEAE), so as to avoid retuning. Some really cool old timey harmonies are possible, and switching up and down an octave is trivial.

I have been exploring calico tuning (AEAC#).

Here is a list of popular fiddle cross tunings that can be done on mandolin.

•a - d' - a' - e' ' (Old-Timey D Tuning)
•a - e' - a' - e' ' (Cross Tuning, A tuning, Open A, High Bass, High Counter or High Tenor, for Breaking Up Christmas, Cluck Old Hen, Hangman's Reel, Horse and Buggy, and Ways of the World)
•a - e' - a' - c# ' ' (A tuning, Black Mountain, Rag Tuning, Calico Tuning, Open A Tuning, or Drunken Hiccups Tuning)
•a - e' - a' - d' ' (for Old Sledge, Silver Lake)
•d - d' - a' - d' ' ("Dee-Dad", Dead Man's Tuning, D Tuning or Open D Tuning, for Bonaparte's Retreat)
•e - d' - a' - e' ' (for Glory in the Meeting House)
•e - e' - a' - e' ' (for Get up in the Cool)
•f ' - c' - g' - d' ' (Cajun Tuning)
•g - d' - a' - d' ' {"Gee-Dad" or G Tuning)
•g - d' - a' - e' ' (Italian tuning or That 'Ole Eye-talian tuning - the standard violin tuning!)
•g - d' - g' - b' (Open G Tuning)
•g - d' - g' - d' ' (Sawmill Tuning)

Bill Monroe used some tunings where he split the unisons. Really cool sound.

[JeffD]

In classical music this tuning was used to make some pieces easier to play. Not certain how it was applied but I guess the music notation is re-witten then the player notes the pieces as one would normally do but the pitch will be different (corrected) because of the way the strings are tuned?

Yea its confusing - do you play as written (with traditional finger positions based on the dots) regardless of what comes out, or do you play the tones the dots represent, regardless of where on your alternately tuned instrument you have to put your fingers.

I think it more often the latter, though I think both have been done.

I don't think it was done to make anything easier. It was done for a specific sound. To make the fiddles louder for example. In one piece Mozart had the violas tune up a tone. They had to play the same pitches, which would be in different positions on the strings, but with more string tension the volume was increased a bit.

In the fiddle tune world, I have most often seen the dots of standard notation represent the pitches you need to achieve, regardless of where you have to put your fingers to do it. This is an instance where tab is useful to me.

[Jim Garber]

In the fiddle world... well... what Jeff said. You get a different resonance from cross tuning.

I am not sure what that photo shows, Bernie. Even if the inner two strings were swapped and I am not sure what the purpose of crossing them at the tailpiece would be except to confuse yourself.

[mandocrucian]

Scordatura, is not a tuning per se, but a notational "device." Rather than notating the alternately tuned strings at the pitches they are now sounding, they are notated at the pitches that would sound as if the strings were tuned "normally", and the player just follows that as the guide to where to place the fingers. At the head of the page would be instructions as to how the instrument is to be tuned.

There are some other ways to notate instrument specific alternate tunings. One way is that the (true) pitches on the retuned strings will have a differently-shaped note head (square or diamond, etc), possibly with a fingering as well. For example, in an AEae tuning, the open bottom string would be notated with a square-head "A" on the staff, probably with an o to remind you that it is an open string. (in "as if" scordatura, it would be notated as a 'G'

Marion Thede's The Fiddle Book (Oak) a collection of old-time tunes collected in the mid-west, has all the cross-tuned tunes notated in both "true pitch" and "sounds as follows" scordatura. Norwegian hardingfele collections probably do something similar. I can't recall, if some of open tuned stuff in Tom Anderson's collection of Shetland tunes (Ringing Strings) were notated scordatura or not.

IMO, 'notating' various/multiple tunings on a specific (stringed) instrument, is one place tablature is superior to standard notation. It's the easiest way for the player of that instrument to read/play tunes in various open and cross tunings.

Niles H

[Bernie Daniel]

In the fiddle world... well... what Jeff said. You get a different resonance from cross tuning.

I am not sure what that photo shows, Bernie. Even if the inner two strings were swapped and I am not sure what the purpose of crossing them at the tailpiece would be except to confuse yourself.

It is a poor photo because they did not include the nut. But I think this would just move the A-string on the nut next to the G and then it it would be dropped two semi-tones to g -- and the D-string is now placed next to the E which it turn is dropped to two semi tones to d (GgDd) What you can do with that I am not sure.

I'm also wondering why wouldn't you have problems with the string not matching the slot in the nut then?

[JeffD]

Marion Thede's The Fiddle Book (Oak) a collection of old-time tunes collected in the mid-west, has all the cross-tuned tunes notated in both "true pitch" and "sounds as follows" scordatura.

I forgot about that. Yes. Thede's book was my first tune book, way back there.

[Hany Hayek]

To play Arabic music Violins are tuned GDgd. Everyone I know in Egypt that plays Arabic tunes it this way.
I have never seen crossing strings

[JeffD]

GDGD is G cross or sawmill tuning. I do that sometimes as well. It is easier on the mandolin because one brings the pitch of the high strings down.

I did not know it was used in Arabic music.


I would suggest that any serious explorations into cross tunings be done on a second mandolin, that you leave cross tuned. It reduces wear and tear on the instruments. It allows the "cross" instrument to settle into its unusual tuning, while not disturbing the constant settling in of the standard tuned instrument.

It has nothing to do with justifying the purchase of another mandolin.

[hokelore]

Anyway, in the course of this reading I came across this scordatura tuning where the inner two strings are exchange between the tail piece and the saddle (see pic) to give a G g D d.

That's for Biber's "Resurrection". Someday I'll try that tuning. Someday...

I love to cross-tune fiddle. I use scordatura on mandolin some, but not as much, because twice the work. I like it for the drone notes and sympathetic vibrations.