Pain in pick hand

[Bill Baldridge]

I have increased my practice time and have acquired pain in the palm of my right hand. I am right handed. I hold the pick between my thumb and index finger with the other fingers open. This seems to be the natural position for me with more control and fluidity than with a loosely closed fist. I have played this way for years. I have tried playing with a loosely closed fist, and while I like the increase in volume, I find it clumsy, and thus I have less control of the pick. I am assuming that the pain in the palm of my hand is caused by the pinching of my thumb and index finger times the increase practice time. My question is: Can I expect the pain to go away as my right hand strengthens over time or should I expect it to get worse?

My own guess it that I am using too much finger action, that I need to use more wrist, and that time will not cure my problem. If that is the case, I must deal with unlearning the open fist technique and switch to a closed fist. Any feedback would be appreciated.

[Ian Rossiter]

Try relaxing not only your hand,but your arms,traps and back. Let the instrument to the work. But if the pain continues...STOP!!

[Tobin]

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on medical stuff, but I don't think you're going to solve anything by going to a closed fist. If anything, you need to loosen up, not tighten up. Closing the hand into a fist shape is only going to encourage tightening and clenching.

Also, if you've been doing it this way "for years", then I tend to agree that it's not something that's going to improve with time, since you're not really building any more strength. It's not a strength issue, it's a strain issue. You mentioned "pinching" of your thumb and forefinger. If you're using that word, your grip is not loose enough, I think.

Personally, I believe you're onto the right answer by using more wrist action. Your fingers really shouldn't be doing any of the energy-input of moving the pick. They're only used to keep it from falling, with all the energy coming from your wrist. Granted, there are some picking styles and tricks where the thumb and forefinger need to bear down a little, but if you're having problems from keeping them squeezed together, it sounds like you need to loosen up.

[Bill Baldridge]

I think "pinching" was a bad choice of words. The pick is loose enough that it almost falls out. It could be that I am doing intermittent tightening of my thumb and index finger without noticing it. The reason I brought up the loose closed fist technique is that the pain goes away as soon as I close my hand. Perhaps it is not a good analogy, but writers cramp comes to mind. More control of the pin/pick holding it between thumb and index finger rather than with a closed fist, but the very term "writers cramp" speaks to something. Thanks for both of your responses.

[Amanda Gregg]

Take a picture of your picking hand in your natural position and post it.

[Bill Baldridge]

Here is where I started and where I have gone to so far. I have cupped my hand more and this position causes me to use more wrist. I am certainly open to more feedback and realize that is a limited amount of help available with method of asking for help.

[Amanda Gregg]

Nice, thanks

Are you resting your ring and pinky fingers on the pickguard? I can't quite tell.

More relevant, it looks to me like you are using the very tip of your first finger to hold the pick. Is this the case? If so, I might recommend moving the pick back a little bit, more towards the first knuckle. Here's a picture of my tiny hand:



It's hard to tell, but I'm squeezing the pick between my thumb and the first joint of my first finger.

You mention in your post that you were thinking that you should move more towards a wrist-based power-delivery system, and I agree. Your picture does make me think that you are delivering too much power using the muscles in your hand. I once heard that when Chris Thile crosses strings, the movement begins in his shoulder (!). Changing your pick hold may help this by giving your hand a better angle.

I hope I don't have this all wrong!

[Bill Baldridge]

I also hold the pick between my thumb and the first joint of my first finger. It can't be seen in the picture, but my first finger is curled. Thanks for the feedback, Amanda.

[Amanda Gregg]

I'm sure others will chime in as well. Good luck, Bill!

[Pete Martin]

Bill, I can't see enough in the pics to help. If possible a video of different angles may help.

Did your pain come on suddenly or gradually? What else do you do in your day to day living with your right hand? Often there is more than one thing that contributes to overuse pain.

How much did you practice before and how much do you practice now?

Sorry about this question but how old are you? If you don't want to say publicly, you can PM me these answers.

You might want to look at the right hand ergonomic video from my webs site

http://www.petimarpress.com/mandolin...%20videos.html

[Bill Baldridge]

Peter, I don't mind sharing my information publicly as it may help others as well as me. I hope that my responses don't sound defensive, if they do, disregard that reading and press on as if they were not. I am 67. I have been playing the mandolin for nearly twenty years. I have noticed a slight pain in the palm of my playing hand in the past that I attributed to overuse. I have tried to get in an hour of practice a day, and when I have experienced the pain I would respond by dividing my practice time into shorter sessions. I have recently acquired a new mandolin and this has lead to more playing and practice time, approximately another hour a day. I never practice for two hours at a setting. I would repeat that the pain preceded the new mandolin.

You asked about other activity besides playing the mandolin. I have been doing spring yard work, and have noticed soreness in my hands from grasping the tools although the soreness from the yard work seem to be more located in my fingers than my palms, and I experience it as stiffness. I attribute some meaningful amount to my age. I would add that too much time with a computer mouse under my hand contributes to such pain. The realities of my age.

I did review you video on right hand position. I have viewed your videos in the past. Thanks for posting them. I cannot cup my hand into a closed position as far as you do without feeling tension in my wrist and forearm. What seems most comfortable for me is to cup my hand into the position taught by my drill Sargent: as if holding a roll of quarters. It appears to me that I place the pick in the same position relative to my finger and thumb as you do. The most obvious difference between my attack and yours is the amount of turning of the forearm and wrist. Yours is much more pronounced than mine.

As I wrote above. I no more than asked my question than I tried to answer it as well. I have no pain in my palm when I cup it per drill Sargent, and I have already changed my right hand position to that extent. Although I had no awareness of it, I believe that holding the pick with a splayed hand resulted in squeezing the thumb and first finger together more than I realized. This was exacerbated by more use and playing with more volume. I felt no tension in my hand, wrist, or arm playing the old way as long as the time was short and the attack was soft. I think your “turning the door knob” technique along with the change from a splayed hand will go a long way to the good.

I regret that a video is beyond my technological abilities. I do look forward to your feedback.

[Pete Martin]

It is very common that increased use can bring on overuse injuries. Also they tend to happen more as we age (I am 57 and really have to monitor my practice closely).

My suggestion is a week of no playing and let it rest. Then a gradual return to playing. Also, my Performing Arts Doctor used to recommend no more that 10 minutes of playing without a break of a few minutes. That relaxation time can really help minimize overuse injuries. Try it!

Best of luck.