A $45 million fiddle?

[bohemianbiker]

According to this nytimes article (link below), Sotheby's is going to auction off a Stadivari viola, and is asking for bids of $45 million or more to be submitted.

But more importantly, the NYTimes has an opinion on the "what is a fiddle" debate, and called the viola a fiddle in the 5th paragraph (ie, adopting the Wikipedia definition that a fiddle is a string instrument played by a bow, and thus has a broader definition than the word "violin").

Alas, the seller chose not to sell the instrument in the Cafe's classifieds .... bb

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/26/ar...rref=arts&_r=0

[mrmando]

Hank Risan wishes he had one of those... of course if he did, it would be worth $450 million.

[sgarrity]

I found it interesting that it's the opposite in mandolins. A Loar-signed H5 sells for about/roughly half what an F5 does. I suppose the viola market is a bit bigger than the market though! ;-)

[bratsche]

Neat! One of only 10 of its kind. Unable to get the video to play, though.

bratsche

[John Ritchhart]

Wow, that's quite a sound. In the hands of a master no question. But 45 million? I bet you could get an A model that sounds just as good for a lot less.

[allenhopkins]

Perhaps this would cure its violist owner of the traditional viola inferiority complex…

Viola jokes Part 1

Viola jokes Part 2

Some of these will be familiar as "banjo jokes" and "accordion jokes."

[Franc Homier Lieu]

But more importantly, the NYTimes has an opinion on the "what is a fiddle" debate, and called the viola a fiddle in the 5th paragraph (ie, adopting the Wikipedia definition that a fiddle is a string instrument played by a bow, and thus has a broader definition than the word "violin").

Leopold Mozart dedicated the first two sections of the introduction to his book on violin technique to distinguishing the twelve kinds of fiddles, and locating the violin within this family of instruments. However, the real must read of the introduction is section 3, in which he excoriates violin makers for adding, wait for it, a scroll.

[Bluetickhound]

Man, that Carpenter cat can PLAY!!

[Jim Garber]

Neat! One of only 10 of its kind.

A friend of mine is knows that instrument said that it is not just one of 10 in existence, it is of normal size. Evidently many of Stradivari's violas were enormous and much larger than players want today. I believe that many of the earlier violas were cut down to more modern size and that some were actually meant to be played in cello position. Also, according to Sotheby's, the MacDonald is the only example from his golden period

Maybe this link works better for the video playback? The 'Macdonald' Viola by Antonio Stradivari

[sgarrity]

The player in the video also says that it's the only one in circulation, the other 9 are owned by museums or foundations. It will certainly be interesting to see how much it sells for.

[peterk]

Similar to the M. Jackson's glove, the market value of such unique collectible merchandise (investment objects) is at a fantastic disparity with their functional value.

[Charlieshafer]

They're hoping this ends up in a foundation as well, some museum or collector that needs the viola to complete the set of violin, viola, and cello. Under those circumstances, I bet it'll get the 45. I'd buy it, but gosh, just don't have the cash. Then again, I'll buy anything so maybe I'm not a good point of reference..

[JeffD]

the market value ... is at a fantastic disparity with their functional value.

The value of something is dependent on soooo much outside of functional value. There is the rarity, the history, the name, the dreams, fantasies, and uncontrolled lust of potential bidders. Its great. I hope it goes higher.

[bohemianbiker]

The value of something is dependent on soooo much outside of functional value. There is the rarity, the history, the name, the dreams, fantasies, and uncontrolled lust of potential bidders. Its great. I hope it goes higher.

Yes, but what often happens is that hedge fund managers or other finance gurus end up buying these things based on their assessment of the prospects of the instrument appreciating. And while they often do loan them to very able musicians, I wish the musicians could actually own them. I dunno, maybe it doesn't matter, as long as they're played, but sky-prices means musicians don't make the decisions about who plays them. bb

[peterk]

Its great. I hope it goes higher.

Why ? Every time such violins, violas or cellos fetch unprecedented high auction sales, the cartel in control of marketing and selling old Italian bowed string instruments quickly makes upward adjustments to the prices of lower echelon orchestral violins such as those by Gagliano or Vuillaume....kind of a domino effect. Now, a young (or old) violin player in the New York Philharmonic orchestra has been under significant pressure to show up with a nice old Italian instrument in order that they can "blend in with the overall orchestra sound". Has their income grown in proportion to the insanely escalating prices of good violins ? Of course not. Today those players are much less capable of purchasing a "required" old Italian violin than even a couple of years ago.

[OldSausage]

I found it interesting that it's the opposite in mandolins. A Loar-signed H5 sells for about/roughly half what an F5 does. I suppose the viola market is a bit bigger than the market though! ;-)

Just give it another 200 years...

[Bernie Daniel]

Perhaps this would cure its violist owner of the traditional viola inferiority complex…

Viola jokes Part 1

Viola jokes Part 2

Some of these will be familiar as "banjo jokes" and "accordion jokes."

Yes great fun but I have always thought that viola jokes stem more from violin player's anxiety, envies, and feelings of inadequacy? Clearly the viola is a superior sound?

[Elliot Luber]

I found it interesting that it's the opposite in mandolins. A Loar-signed H5 sells for about/roughly half what an F5 does. I suppose the viola market is a bit bigger than the market though! ;-)

That's because Bill played the F5. We need an H5 superstar.

[sgarrity]

Well before today I'd have been hard pressed to name a viola superstar!

I think the Dawg and Peter Rowan are as close to an H5 superstar as we're gonna get!
Although for awhile Forrest O'Connor (Mark's son) was using a mandola as his primary instrument.

[OldGus]

Neat! One of only 10 of its kind. Unable to get the video to play, though.

bratsche

Click on the video twice.

[JeffD]

, I wish the musicians could actually own them. I dunno, maybe it doesn't matter, as long as they're played, but sky-prices means musicians don't make the decisions about who plays them. bb

Were I a top level musician I would much rather rent something like that, properly insured, than be responsible for the care and security of a $45M object smaller than a suitcase. Remember this? Even a wealthy musician, who could presumably afford the security guards and all could feel its too much of a hassle to own it. Lots of characters of the extra-legal community would take large risks for $45M.

[luthier88]

It is indeed one of 10 Stradivari violas in existence. There are 2 composite instruments, but only this viola and one in the hands of the Rothschild family are in private hands. Only one of Strad's violas to survive is "enormous". The rest are fairly normal. The Brescian makers made huge things, as well as the Amati, and almost all of the Brescian violas have been cut down. Sorta like reducing a Loar Mandola into a mandolin... There were 2 sizes of viola made back then-Alto and Tenore-and most have been reduced from 18-19"+ dimensions. Also, they were played under the chin, not as a cello.

A friend of mine is knows that instrument said that it is not just one of 10 in existence, it is of normal size. Evidently many of Stradivari's violas were enormous and much larger than players want today. I believe that many of the earlier violas were cut down to more modern size and that some were actually meant to be played in cello position. Also, according to Sotheby's, the MacDonald is the only example from his golden period

Maybe this link works better for the video playback? The 'Macdonald' Viola by Antonio Stradivari

[Ivan Kelsall]

The Viola is my favourite of all the orchestral stringed instruments & regardless of it's price,i wish to heaven i could get to hear this one 'in the wood' as it were,in concert. My sincere hope that it doesn't end up like Bill Monroe's 'Loar',in a glass case, simply ''gawked at'' by folks who'd love to hear it again,
Ivan

[bohemianbiker]

Were I a top level musician I would much rather rent something like that, properly insured, than be responsible for the care and security of a $45M object smaller than a suitcase. Remember this? Even a wealthy musician, who could presumably afford the security guards and all could feel its too much of a hassle to own it. Lots of characters of the extra-legal community would take large risks for $45M.

I take your point that there could be less expenses and headaches in renting an instrument like this (and my understanding is that often in these arrangements the musician does not pay rent; the arrangement is more like an interest free loan), but there are elements of pride and control in ownership. And if the musicians were doing the buying, the prices would be lower. I suspect most musicians at this (or any) level would rather own, but who knows.

And it's all a moot point. I may as well be wishing for the buggy whip to make a return to market .... bb

[farmerjones]

That's roughly a thousand new 3/4 ton pickup trucks, or eighteen new combines. Or I could buy 10 million people a beer! Or I could get Jimmy Buffett to play while 9 million of us had a beer. I've played viola. They are easy to dislike.