Amazon pup

[Astro]

Anyone tried one of these?

Simple and cheap...just like me !

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...840_em_1p_0_ti


If I had a clip on version of me, I'd buy it.

PS: Just bought it for kicks

[tkdboyd]

I used to have one, worked fine, gave it to a violinist. It works great connecting to the bridge.

[BlueMt.]

That looks just like the clip on that came with my Petereon Stroboflip tuner.

[mandroid]

yes I have a tuner clip, with a 1/4 " plug . that is what that is ..

[EdSherry]

They work fine for what they're intended for: sending a signal to a tuner. They aren't much for what one ordinarily wants a "pickup" for, namely amplifying the sound while keeping a decent tone/timbre.

[buchrob]

Amazon "suggests" frequently bought together with a package of picks that cost 50% MORE than the "pickup" itself. Should give you an idea of quality especially when item is advertised as "ideal" and get 2/5 stars.

Perhaps if bundled with "pick and shovel" you would get more stars on the overall purchase...

[almeriastrings]

What they are is our old friend the piezo disc element mounted in a simple clip, and yes, sold as tuner attachments too. The main problem is the poor contact with the surface and damping factor of the mount. The 'functional part' is exactly the same as the transducers used in a wide range of pickups from various brands, from $20 to well over $100. These transducers are very cheap.... you can get a 100 of them for $40. Some take them and encapsulate them in epoxy, add a lead... you have an instrument transducer. Or, put them in clip like this, and you have a tuner pickup... mounted carefully and run into a preamp with the right impedance they are better than you'd expect. Work quite well as temporary pickups on string bass, or fiddle. The preamp is critical, though. Might seem strange running what is a 40 cent pickup element into a $400 preamp, but I've done it, and it was fine.

[Steve Ostrander]

I have one for my tuner. It works fine for that, but that's all it's intended for.

[almeriastrings]

The manufacturer (Cherub Technology) does actually sell them as pickups.

http://www.cherubtechnology.com/prod...?id1=37&id2=40

At their most basic level they are just a piezo-ceramic disc element, like numerous other instrument transducers out there. No different at all. I know a flamenco guitar player and a uke player who have them. Run into a high impedance (>5M+) preamp and EQ'd a bit they work just as well as most other soundboard transducers. Much less "quacky" than an under-saddle, but a bit more prone to handling noise. As mentioned before, I used one as a temporary transducer on a string bass once (into a Headway preamp) and it really did sound OK. No reason why it wouldn't, because it is exactly the same thing internally as a JJB, Schaller Oyster, Shadow, Dean Markley or any number of other contact transducers based upon identical piezo disc elements. To get a significant sound improvement over this super-cheapo, you have to move away from piezo elements and look at other technologies. The AKG C411, for example, based on a condenser element. On a technical level, there is very little to choose between the various piezo disc based transducers - most of it is in the packaging and mounting. You can pay $50 for one...

http://www.deanmarkley.com/products/...323-transducer

Inside, though, it is the same piezo disc as on the $5 Cherub! If $5 is too much, you could even make one with a plastic clothes peg and a 70 cent transducer disc!

[sbarnes]

I bought 2 of 'em....the one on my stroboflip died and these were cheap enough....they work ok as a tuner clip on.....don't think I'd use one for a pickup though.....

[Terry Allan Hall]

They work fine for what they're intended for: sending a signal to a tuner. They aren't much for what one ordinarily wants a "pickup" for, namely amplifying the sound while keeping a decent tone/timbre.

True.

[almeriastrings]

True.

So if I posted 4 soundclips of different 'contact' transducers ranging in price from $5 to $150, all recorded through exactly the same signal path with identical (flat) settings and no further processing it should be instantaneously obvious which this one is, right?

Pickup>Headway EDB-2>Universal Audio Apollo interface

[almeriastrings]

Here you go.

Three contact pickups tested. First set, straight into Headway EDB-2 on highest impedance setting, no EQ, no other adjustments whatever. Quite a lot of 'thumping' and handling noise as expected, but you can certainly hear quite large differences between them.



Second set is the same pickups but with a bit of EQ and FX as you might use in a live setting to reduce the handling noise and add some ambience.



I don't think any of them sound exactly great (I hate pickups to begin with), but I do think one sounds particularly bad and one is at least semi-decent...

What do you think? Any guess as to:

a) Which is the cheapest one?
b) Which is the most expensive?

[Mike Bunting]

Back in the 80's Grisman's Mandolin World News was selling basic piezo disks for $5 with instructions on how to do the soldering. They said they were the same disk that you could buy at Radio Shack to build doorbells and the like.

[almeriastrings]

He was right. They are.

Also drum sensors (midi triggers), smoke detector alarms and dozens of other things. You can also buy the same stuff in sheet, film and cord format. The latter is what they use for under-saddle pickups.

[Astro]

That is a great test Almstrings.

The first sample sounded pretty good on each set. The others, not so good.

So, whats what ?

[almeriastrings]

One of them is an LR Baggs Radius ($135), one is this type (about $20) and the other one is the 'Cherub' ($5.80 - with free shipping).

Should be easy to say which is which, no?

I had to use an oval hole A-4 mandolin, by the way, as the 'guitar' model Cherub will not fit into F-holes. Possibly the violin model might. I have not got one to try.

[niels]

a) Which is the cheapest one?
b) Which is the most expensive?

my guess:
a) the first one is the most expensive
b) the last one is the cheapest.

what do I win?

[dang]

So if I posted 4 soundclips of different 'contact' transducers ranging in price from $5 to $150, all recorded through exactly the same signal path with identical (flat) settings and no further processing it should be instantaneously obvious which this one is, right?

Pickup>Headway EDB-2>Universal Audio Apollo interface

Wow, surprising differences! All placed at the exact same spot inside the mando? I imagine that placement alone could create a large variation with even the same pickup...

To my ears, the first sample sounds the best, with the second being thinner and a little tinny, and the last much more muted and bassy. I would HOPE the first is the LR Baggs, the second the HB-T and the third the Cherub (which is way too straight forward but I will stick with those as my choices). But that wouldn't be any fun, would it

Oh, and the second clip was definitely the 1923 Loar, the third clip had to be the oval hole
(for the literal minded - yes this is sarcasm)

[almeriastrings]

Yes, they were all placed in exactly the same spot on the mandolin.

This is obviously not necessarily the best spot for reach pickup, which you normally have to establish by trial/error/experience. The Cherub would only fit in one place.....so that is where the others went too.

[Nevin]

If you don't shield the piezo they can pick up a lot of RF and 60Hz noise. I have been working on building my own pickups for double bass. The parts are cheap but getting everything to work just right and stand up to gigging conditions is a bit more tricky.

[almeriastrings]

The shocking truth revealed.

Sample one is the ultra-cheapie clip on by Cherub. It sounded the best of the lot, not perfect or fantastic, but at all of $7 who's complaining? It was not exactly easy to use, as it blocked the soundhole and was difficult to avoid with the pick/fingers. Would really get in the way on a gig.... sound-wise, though, it was very decent! Output was quite high and it was not too bad with handling noise either.

Sample two is another cheapie, the Thomann/Shadow piezo at around $20. This had a 'harsher' tone than the Cherub. Output was the highest of all three, though, and it was reasonably resistant to handling noises. I suspect with some EQ adjustment it could be made to sound pretty acceptable in a live situation.

Sample three is the real surprise. LR Baggs Radius. No messing - it sounded lousy. Handling noise was absolutely terrible. Of course, it was not in the usual place where you'd site one of these... so, given it did sound so horrible I re-did the test of this one yesterday and this time positioned it behind the treble side of the bridge. Have to say - still not good at all. Handing noise, pick, fingers, still overwhelming and tone 'strangled' and distant sounding. Judge for yourself.



With some EQ to try to remove the handing noise (not entirely successfully)



Why so bad? I have no idea. Possibly a very bad match to this mandolin (a nice Mark Franzke A-4), it is also likely super critical as to placement and fitting.... there have been comments on here before about handling noise and the Radius, however, and I can see why. I am sure you must be able to get a better result than this, but certainly in this quick test it did not do well at all.

Finally, this is what the mandolin really sounds like. Microphone - no pickup.

[Astro]

OK I just got mine and tried it out.

I was quite surprised. It sounds as good as my JBB twin. Maybe better.

It works clipped through the F hole and even works pretty well just clipped to the bridge where it only contacts about 1/3 of the disc ?.

Sounded great on my acoustic guitar too BUT it wont do for this because the clip gets in the way at the sound hole.

The big down side of the one I got is the 3 foot cord. its just too short to be practical unless you sit right next to the amp.

If you have the type preamp that clips to the belt, it would work fine with that.

Anyway, for the money its fun to have. Could make a back up pup in a pinch or fun to noodle on playing with mp effects.

[almeriastrings]

Yes... they are certainly high up in the good value stakes, for sure. The lead needs to be short as with all passive piezo units or you will get quite severe effects from capacitance in the cable. Often, when fitting piezo elements permanently in various instruments, I suggest using an active endpin preamp, which gets around that - but you can't get them in everything due to access/size restrictions (a 9v battery through an F-hole, for example). Fine with guitars, though. A belt-clip pre used as close as possible is a good alternative with such elements. I fit quite a few pickups in dulcimers and traditional Spanish instruments, but avoid them on a personal basis!

[Tom Cherubini]

Kind of a short cable, though. Only 3 feet. Why do manufacturers decide to cut corners like that? There probably isn't a player alive who wouldn't pay an extra dollar or two for a sensibly long cord.
I replaced my Farberware coffee percolator, and the new one came with a cord 1 foot long. One foot! Their excuse was that the short cord gave the purchaser "more options" by adding an additional length of cord !!