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Thread: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

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    Registered User Jake Howard's Avatar
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    Default Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    Howdy, just finished this one up for Tablaninja this morning, he asked for the transcription. This tune is such a soft and sweet melody and I really enjoy listening to it. Now, on the the other hand, transcribing it was far from enjoyable. There are a lot of weird and quirky timed phrases that Chris plays in this song (and the tempo fluctuates so that didn't help). I hope I got it close enough to where y'all can dig at the tune and see whats going on!

    Jake

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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    There was a discussion of this tune in 2009 on the SAW group.
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

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    Registered User BlueMt.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    Jake, I'd like to see what you've done with this but the image is too small and if I enlarge it, too blurry.
    Eric

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    Registered User Jake Howard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    Hey Eric, it should be in PDF form. Instead of opening or saving it as an image, download the link instead (right click and it should say download link). If you do that it should open up nice and big! Hope that helped. If that doesn't work I can just email you the file.

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    Registered User BlueMt.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    Thanks! That did it.
    Eric

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    Musically Omnivorous tablaninja's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    Wow! thank you so much! I've been working on this one little by little for a few months now. My ears can only pick up so much, as this song has proven. This should keep me busy for months to come.

    Here's a link to the Thile/Daves version


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    Registered User rodarbal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    I was so happy to find this on tab. It is also known as the Scott Wicklund song. A legendary smokejumper, skier, adventurer who sadly is no longer with us A video "Holding the line" was made on the line by #huckabillysuitcase on Norcal Fireweather... An extra shout out to Chris for getting this on a 4 line graph. As a retired logistics person in the wildland fire arena and still a somewhat raw mandolin player, I will learn this wonderful waltz. One of my favorites.
    Enjoy
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4prGGkwbru4

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    Registered User Ranald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    A little background on the "Ookpik Waltz" from Traditional Tune Archive -- it ain't Chris Thile's tune. (Back in the 60's, my sister had a toy Ookpik; they were popular in Canada.)

    ...According to the Canadian Encyclopedia, the word Ookpik is Inuktitut for "snowy" or "Arctic owl." It was also the name of the most popular of Inuit handicrafts in the form of a souvenier sealskin owl, which featured an appealing large head and big eyes (a la the Disney cartoon characters). It was created at the Fort Chimo Eskimo Co-operative in Quťbec in 1963, and quickly became a worldwide symbol for Canadian handicrafts. The cute fuzzy, stuffed Ookpik owl doll was already a popular image in Canada by the time of the Centennial (1967), which propelled it to even more fame.

    Despite the rumors of antiquity and Native American provenance, the "Ookpik Waltz" was not derived from indigenous sources but rather is a latter 20th century composition of Mission, British Columbia, fiddler Frankie Rodgers (1936-2009), who published it in a tune book of his compositions. British Columbia fiddlers know the tune book and the source well. It was also first recorded on his (c. 1960's) LP "Maple Sugar, Fiddle Favorites by Canada's Old Time Fiddle King Frankie Rodgers of the Rodgers Brothers Band" (Point P-250). Sheet music of "Ookpik Waltz" was published with a 1965 copyright to Rodgers. The melody has been "folk-processed" since then, but is still recognizably derived from the original. (https://tunearch.org/wiki/Annotation:Ookpik_Waltz)
    Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
    "I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
    Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.

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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    Frankie Rodgers, "Ookpik Waltz" (see previous post). If the links don't work, search YouTube for "Frankie Rodgers/Ookpik Waltz".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Iw...nnel=BPMONKMAN



    And here's Ookpik:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    They migrate south to my neck of the woods (or more likely, field) in winter.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Ranald; Sep-25-2021 at 9:12pm.
    Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
    "I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
    Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.

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    Registered User doc holiday's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    Thank you Ranald. It's not a Thile tune. It's not a Wicklund Tune. It's not even a 'traditional' tune any more than 'Rebecca' is. If you're going to do a transcription, have the courtesy to find out the composer and acknowledge them. Frankie Rogers.
    Last edited by doc holiday; Oct-01-2021 at 6:10pm.

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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    Quote Originally Posted by doc holiday View Post
    ... Frankie Rogers.
    Spelled Rodgers on the CD sleeve. (I'm quick to notice how that name is spelled, right or wrong, as it turns out!)
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    Registered User doc holiday's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    Good catch there Keith Rogers! BTW for those who never had a chance to hear the man, he was a great fiddler, performer & gentleman. He came and taught at the BC Bluegrass Workshop (which became Nimblefingers. The best performance of the week was listening to Frankie Rogers trade quips with Emory Lester. Maybe the best instructor band ever. Frankie Rogers on fiddle & sharing the mic with Emory Lester (mandolin), Kristin Scott Benson (banjo), Micky Harris (bass), a very young Winfield winner Cody Kilby (guitar). His presence at the camp was only ever matched by Byron Berline. Frankie played fiddle for many great country stars including George Jones & Lefty Frizzell.

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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    Quote Originally Posted by doc holiday View Post
    Thank you Ranald. It's not a Thile tune. It's not a Wicklund Tune. It's not even a 'traditional' tune any more than 'Rebecca' is. If you're going to do a transcription, have the courtesy to find out the composer and acknowledge them. Frankie Rogers.
    It is "traditional" or "folk" in the sense that's it's been passed around aurally, and, as played, is often well removed from its composer, as the different variations show. But I agree that a tune's writer should get credit, and royalties if the tune is being played commercially. I have no idea whether or not the various musicians recording this song have credited Frankie Rodgers. Often commercial musicians pay their royalties, and credit the composer on the CD, album, or whatever, but do not necessarily mention the composer during performances. I don't think I've heard many musicians tell who wrote "The Tennessee Waltz" or "The Orange Blossom Special," partly because the performers are entertainers, and their audiences aren't necessarily interested. On the other hand, I've seen a great many fiddle tunes labelled "traditional" on albums, when the writers are known. "Big John MacNeil," "Angus Campbell," and "Little Burnt Potato," are three common examples in Canada.
    Last edited by Ranald; Oct-01-2021 at 7:36pm.
    Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
    "I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
    Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.

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    Registered User doc holiday's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    Ranald, the kind of music many of us play is indeed 'traditional' 'folk' & learned aurally. It is still odd to me that a fiddler/composer musician is alive and gigging and doesn't get credit. The Ookpik Waltz hits a particular nerve with me, because Aubrey Haynie recorded it on his Bluegrass Fiddle Album in 2003...when Frankie was still gigging & BTW I did write to him about that. Monroe's "Roanoke" was written in 1954 but no one says 'oh it's traditional.'
    Another great Canadian tune that has come into the BG/OT world, thanks to Bruce Molsky, Darol Anger, Sierra Hull & Courtney Hartman, is "Grey Owl." You and I both know it's a John Arcand tune,.... that he's very much alive & hosts fiddle camps
    https://johnarcandfiddlefest.com/workshops/
    Last edited by doc holiday; Oct-01-2021 at 7:02pm.

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    music with whales Jim Nollman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    Regarding the discussion of acknowledging (or not acknowledging) composers. I once recorded an album of traditional old time tunes. As I tend to do, I vastly deconstructed the original tunes, including the addition of animal sounds, techno beats, and spoken word. When I delivered the mastered CD to the people at the record company in Portland, the very first thing they did (and always do), was look up the composers of every composition on the my CD by consulting an industry-wide database. The folks at the label then set up the standard legal agreement for sharing royalties with every tune covered by copyright. That amounted to about half the tunes on the CD. It made no difference whatsoever how much I had altered the original melodies. I sincerely believe that 's how royalties were handled for the Thile CD. Also, Ootpik Waltz is very well known waltz within the contra dance community.
    Explore some of my published music here

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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Nollman View Post
    Regarding the discussion of acknowledging (or not acknowledging) composers. I once recorded an album of traditional old time tunes. As I tend to do, I vastly deconstructed the original tunes, including the addition of animal sounds, techno beats, and spoken word. When I delivered the mastered CD to the people at the record company in Portland, the very first thing they did (and always do), was look up the composers of every composition on the my CD by consulting an industry-wide database. The folks at the label then set up the standard legal agreement for sharing royalties with every tune covered by copyright. That amounted to about half the tunes on the CD. It made no difference whatsoever how much I had altered the original melodies. I sincerely believe that 's how royalties were handled for the Thile CD. Also, Ootpik Waltz is very well known waltz within the contra dance community.
    Thanks, Jim. I don't think anyone was suggesting that Chris Thile didn't pay his royalties. The issue was that the OP posted the transcribed tune and credited it to "Thile". It would be more appropriate to put "Frankie Rodgers (as played by Chris Thile)". Wrongly crediting tunes is extremely common on the internet. For example, the song, "Me and Bobbie McGee," is often credited to Janis Joplin, though an internet search that takes literally seconds shows that the song is written by Kris Kristofferson and Fred Foster. It is a compliment to a song-writer or tune-composer that their creation goes into oral tradition. It means that people like the song or tune, and don't care who wrote it. However, a person trying to make a living through music could use those royalty cheques. Even when there are no royalties, as with the shared transcription above, it's nice to see the proper person get credit. I'm glad you're giving credit and royalties where they're due.

    Added: By the way, I appreciate that Jake did the work of transcribing this song, then was generous enough to share it with us all at Mandolin Cafe. Thanks, Jake.
    Last edited by Ranald; Oct-02-2021 at 7:27pm.
    Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
    "I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
    Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.

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    Registered User Jake Howard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    I didnít mean any disrespect to the composer. I know Thile didnít write the tune at the time of the transcription as all the tunes on that record were already in the bluegrass rep. Iím assuming the reason his name was on the transcription was because I was noting it was his solo take on it. I was also a teenager at the time of the transcription and wasnít a learned musician (as you can tell by the terribly laid out notation, oh I would change so much now) and I was just trying to write out some Thile transcriptions and didnít know any better on how to properly credit the original composer.

    But thanks for enjoying the transcription!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranald View Post
    Thanks, Jim. I don't think anyone was suggesting that Chris Thile didn't pay his royalties. The issue was that the OP posted the transcribed tune and credited it to "Thile". It would be more appropriate to put "Frankie Rodgers (as played by Chris Thile)". Wrongly crediting tunes is extremely common on the internet. For example, the song, "Me and Bobbie McGee," is often credited to Janis Joplin, though an internet search that takes literally seconds shows that the song is written by Kris Kristofferson and Fred Foster. It is a compliment to a song-writer or tune-composer that their creation goes into oral tradition. It means that people like the song or tune, and don't care who wrote it. However, a person trying to make a living through music could use those royalty cheques. Even when there are no royalties, as with the shared transcription above, it's nice to see the proper person get credit. I'm glad you're giving credit and royalties where they're due.

    Added: By the way, I appreciate that Jake did the work of transcribing this song, then was generous enough to share it with us all at Mandolin Cafe. Thanks, Jake.
    Mandolinist for Henhouse Prowlers and Westbound Situation

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    Registered User Ranald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    I hope this all didn't seem too harsh, Jake. I understand your reasoning. Still, we had our point to make. Sometimes these internet discussions feel more hostile than they would if we were sitting around someone's kitchen making the same points during a break in our picking. Once again, thanks for sharing your transcription.
    Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
    "I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
    Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.

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    Registered User Jake Howard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ookpik Waltz- Chris Thile

    Not at all, Iím glad it was hashed out who composed it here!

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