Plateau? Will I ever get any better

[senglish70]

I bought my first mandolin about 18 months ago at age 43. No prior musical experience except playing the radio and singing in the shower. I got a beginner's book, watched a lot of YouTube lessons and practice/play almost every day for an average of an hour, I've missed a few days while out of town, but that's about it. I've been able to learn the melodies to a few simple songs - Amazing Grace, Jingle Bells, Old Joe Clark - but I have to play them pretty slow and it takes me forever to learn them. I'd say my rhythm playing is on about the same level - I can change between 2 finger chords pretty well, but I'm not breaking any speed records.

Began to think I had taught myself as much as I could so about 4 months ago I started taking weekly 1/2 hour lessons from a well recommended teacher and I think he's great.
He keeps it interesting, has taught me some chord shapes that make it easier to change than the 4 finger chords I've been trying to master, and is encouraging.

Trouble is I don't think I'm getting any better, some days I think I'm getting worse.
When I started learning I never had any thoughts of being what I consider a good player.
But had hoped that one day I wouldn't be embarrassed to play in my own house.

Anyone else ever felt like this? What did you do to break thru?
I'm sure I don't have much natural talent, and I wish I had started learning earlier in life, but had hoped that persistence would carry me through - now I'm having some doubts.

[OldSausage]

One of the things that I've found happened is that in addition to your playing improving, your ear/brain also gets better. So you can get this effect where the more you learn and the better you get, the worse you feel like you are, because you can also hear more accurately all the bad stuff you're doing. It can be useful to make recordings of yourself to counteract it. The good news is that if you can hear what you're doing wrong, you will find ways to fix it - that's just what your brain does.

So the only time you're really in trouble is when you think you're doing just fine.

Natural talent is vastly overrated in my opinion. Tenacity is a much more important quality.

Also, this is the earliest in your life it's ever gonna be, so work with what you have, that's all any of us can do.

[RyanRussell]

Try recording yourself. Audio or better video. Review these over time. You will then hear and see how much you have improved. I have to do this myself.

[mandocrucian]

What did you do to break thru?

Just keep plugging away. It's difficult (for you) to discern any improvement on a day to day basis. You'd have to keep recording yourself once a month and then compare them.

Also, you may/will occasionally have "overnight" jumps in progress after flatlining for months. This is just a result of the brain absorbing and cooking the ideas or techniques as in a crockpot. At some point different elements seem to "magically" come together and there's a jump in your playing, just like when the last tumbler in a sticky lock falls into place and the key opens it (yeah - after fumbling around with it for awhile, spraying WD40 into it etc).

If you are expecting progress to be a linear diagonal graph line, it just doesn't work that way. (imo)

PS: Vocalize those melodies while you play them. This will help to wire up the ear>hand connections.

[dusty miller]

I think a lot of people go through that. I hit that wall 4 or 5 years ago and quit playing until getting back at it last spring. All that time I wasted when I quit I could be that much better now. I just kind of play through that now. Try to be happy and satisfied at what I do know and keep working at it. Recording yourself is a good idea.

[yankees1]

Your story sounds identical to mine except I started at 63 and one half ! Believe me, if you work at it regularly, you will improve and plateau's are a part of the learning cycle. I have been at it now for almost four years and play in a band where we play oldtime and some Bluegrass. But, I practice about two hours per day . Stay with it and you will improve ! When you are struggling with those plateau's, take a break or play something different. Work on scales . I would bet that all players on this site have gone through your exact same concerns.

[Sterling]

I'm a middle school band director and the year and a half mark for most instruments is the continue or quit mark.

[woodenfingers]

Get out and go jamming. You'll get better fast.

[Jack Roberts]

...
Anyone else ever felt like this? ...
What did you do to break thru?
I'm sure I don't have much natural talent,....

1. Yes. I still feel like that: I started at 49. After all these years people finally like to listen to me play.

2. I never "broke through", but I make steady progress the more I play, and once in a while I surprise myself. My best advice is join or form a band. You don't have to be good. Heck, my band made a recording and I played so badly the guy who did the mixing just zeroed me out, but I still had fun playing.

3. Talent doesn't matter. Old age and treachery will defeat youth and talent every time.

[tangleweeds]

When I first started playing music (as a 40-something year old adult), I was so bad that I feared I was tone deaf or suffering from some sort of organic amusia. I was really, really bad at it. I was so discouraged that there were a number of occasions when I stopped entirely for months or years.

But I couldn't stay away, and kept coming back to try again.

Ten years later, I'm now finding that I'm picking up the mandolin very rapidly... but when I tried four years ago, it was so hard that I gave up after a month or so. What I"m finding now is that all the piano playing and music theory and ear training that I've done in the intervening years have created a musical framework in my mind, so that now each bit of mandolin info is slotting right into place. Also, my ear has improved immensely, so now I enjoy tuning rather than fearing it. But most of all, I've spent those years learning how to learn music, which is an esoteric skill in and of itself.

So what I"m trying to say is that it's not abnormal to start out being very awkward at playing music, but all that sweat and pain you may need to put in at the beginning just reflects the steep learning curve, and it all really does pay off in the end, as more and more things come together in your mind+body to create a more comfortable presence within the music.

[Astro]

I feel exactly like you do. I have been playing mandolin for exactly the same amount of time as you. I have been a hack on guitar for a few years prior, so I have a little advantage there. But many of us feel just like you.

Lots of good advice already here. You are doing fine. Glad you got lessons as a lot of mid aged folks are too proud to go there for egotistical self conscious ridiculous reasons. If you are learning, that is reason enough to continue.

1. Its not a contest. There is no finish line. The process must become the reward.

2, Very true that the more you learn, the more you know you don't know. Makes you feel like you're not getting anywhere. And then you hear something you did a year ago and its as good as anything you are doing today and you cant really do it any better despite all the hours of practice since. All normal.

3. Tenacity and perseverance actually is the "talent", just as Sausage said. More of a personality trait than a talent. No one plays casually for an hour a day and becomes great. No One.

4. Its directly related to the time you put into it. It takes a ton of time to be really good. An hour a day isn't that much. Thats kind of the minimum to keep at it. I'm not saying you cant get better with an hour a day but your plateaus will last a lot longer. The ones with "talent" who rip it up were either addicted to music or were introverts with social awkwardness and were most comfortable learning to express themselves through music or at least perceived it as a shot at getting laid or all of the above. A "normal" person (whatever that is) with a balanced life will proceed at a slower pace and thats ok if you are learning and having fun. We are not going to become rock stars or make our living from this. We do it because we must. Its a creative outlet and a process toward self fulfillment or self actualization or misplaced Freudian drive or something ?

5. You absolutely must play with other people to progress. Thats right where you are. You need to get out and play with others now. You will progress exponentially faster and have renewed interest. Its an essential part of the music. Except for piano players who cant find anyone good enough or bag pipe players who cant find ...anyone. The rest of us must have others to play with.

6. Even though I conceptualize all of the above it doesn't keep me from feeling just as you do. I sometimes wonder why I keep doing it. The simple answer is, because I must. And every now and then, magic happens. And I'm part of it.

[Mandobart]

Get out and go jamming. You'll get better fast.

That is the ticket. I started going to a local jam when I started mandolin. I got much better much faster than I expected. In five years on mando I'm better on it than I was after 20 years playing guitar on my own.

[shortymack]

There is such a thing as God given talent and natural ability. Do you NEED to have it to progress? No. But those who do progress a lot faster and reach a higher plateau as a result. To say that anyone can do it, or anything for that matter just as a result of hours spent is not a black and white issue. You can not dismiss the advantage that an innate ability or talent gives someone.

I always have said no matter how good you are theres always someone better and no matter how bad you are theres always someone worse. So yea, its not a contest, its an expression. Find the round peg for the round hole, take your time and enjoy it until you do.

[roysboy]

Play music for and with other musicians. It's inspiring, challenging , educational , motivational , and a heckofalot more fun and rewarding than playing in a vacuum .

[almeriastrings]

As others have said.. tenacity.. perseverance... and a methodical approach. Every day.

Also, seek new inspiration. New tunes. New people to pick with. New mandolin

Try to learn just a bit of something new, or get something just a bit better every time you pick the instrument up, even if just a few notes smoother, faster, cleaner or whatever. It all adds up.

[Bertram Henze]

...singing in the shower...
But had hoped that one day I wouldn't be embarrassed to play in my own house.

Now there's a contradiction. You weren't embarrassed to play music in the shower with your voice (don't tell me nobody heard it), and a mandolin is just another instrument to play music with.
One hint: don't shower with your mandolin

Apart from that, listen to what all the others have said. Everybody goes through this, and more than once.

[bluemoonofky]

If music was easy, everyone could do it. But the reality is that it takes some work to get better. What I try to remember is that there will always be those who are better than me and in some cases I am better than others. At the end of the day, its about the musical journey. I played guitar since the 60s and only picked up mandolin in the last few years. Enjoy the ride and take pride in your accomplishments no matter how small. Best wishes and keep picking!

[lorrainehornig]

A few years ago, with retirement about 6 years away, I started to think about my game plan for the next phase of my life. The mandolin immediately came to mind and I dusted off my old 1970s starter mandolin. All those years of improper storage took their toll and I invested in a really good mandolin and tried to pick up where I left off 30-some years ago. I was surprised at how quickly I got back to my former level of proficiency...BUT...with the advent of the internet and social media, it didn't take long to see how I was deficient on so many levels. After attending a couple of workshops at an Old Time Music Festival, I signed up with a private instructor, just as you have. I have been taking weekly lessons for 5 months now and I have to admit, it hasn't been easy. Nothing worthwhile ever is. I have felt just as you feel on many, many occasions. Sometimes I would get so frustrated I would just put my mandolin away because I couldn't handle how bad I was feeling. My instructor keeps me on my toes and is always pushing me. One day I told him how frustrated I was and he said, "You have to keep one thing in mind...it's about the journey; looking at the big picture instead of an instant in time when you are focusing on where you are as compared to where you want to be. You will get there...and no one is judging you here." I can't begin to tell you how that put my mind at ease and I was able to relax. I came to the conclusion that I was so obsessed with wanting to impress my instructor that the whole process of learning became devoid of joy. I have also experienced the plateau you speak of. I am finding when I am learning a new skill, the plateau occurs pretty quickly and I struggle for awhile. Suddenly, there is a breakthrough. I just had such a breakthrough with chop chords. So try to relax and enjoy the journey and don't compare yourself to others: comparisons to those more proficient will discourage you and comparisons to those less proficient will make you complacent. Just keep in mind that what you are feeling is pretty predictable...you will get there...just keep at it. All the best to you!

[JeffD]

Play regularly with others. It sets the world on fire.

[Timbofood]

Anything rewarding does require some effort, just keep going! I am certainly in the "Get thee to a jam" camp, being around other pickers will give you some incentive.
The one piece of advice I got when I was starting that has stuck in my head was:
Keep playing, if you miss a note, you can't go back for it! Just learn from the miss and get it the next time it comes around.
And remember, it's called PLAYING so have fun!

[wsugai]

Improvement is not linear, and neither is losing weight.

[Randi Gormley]

Just remember that every morning is a new day to move forward (or as I say, a day without any mistakes in it yet!) from where you were. Keep moving and not obsessing on where you "ought" to be at any given point. Just keep walking forward. If nothing else, just keeping on can give you satisfaction even if it's taking longer on mandolin than you'd thought.

[AlanN]

Much cogent advice here. Learn scales, the fretboard, hum what you play, and keep on pickin.

[twilson]

Lots of good advice here. But I have found if I put the thing in the case for a couple of days without playing, when I go back I can do some of the things I was struggling with. Subconscious at work? Or maybe its like fasting. When I do pick it up again, there is a sense of joy; I'm really glad to be playing again and that just adds to the fun.

Also, someone above talked about hitting bad notes: I saw a quote from Stephane Grappelli where he said if he messes up, he goes back and plays the same messed up lick again, so it sounds like he meant it. Stephane may have been pulling our legs, but what the heck, might be worth a try if your mess up wasn't too atrocious.

Tim Wilson

[Jack Roberts]

One thing about jams. When I was a beginner, the jams I went to just frustrated me. I couldn't play most of the tunes, and the ones I could play, I couldn't play fast enough. So I got together with a few friends (one beginner banjo player, a great bass player and a great guitar player) and we made our own music. It's a lot easier to jam with friends.