Mandocello - kind of a cunundrum huh?

[Ken Olmstead]

Mandocellos are kind of a pain in the butt aren’t they? I mean there is not enough demand for a builder to get too excited about building them as a regular model, but if you do want one, the options are a bit limited.

I am hoping to purchase something later in the year and I had decided on the Eastman. However, I am rethinking this decision. My first issue is that I have played them a couple of times and they are decent but they lack that big BOOM that some cellos have. The guitar neck is an issue and not easily addressed. Yeah, I could get the nut and bridge worked on to bring the courses more in line with a traditional cello, but that wide guitar neck would remain. Second issue is the ball end string thing. I would really like to use a standard set of J78s. The Eastman gets high marks in the looks department though and I have been thinking of doing an “import” themed project. I had been fairly resolute in my desire to buy and Eastman except…

I realized that a Weber Gallatin A model with a couple visual option changes would be a similar cost to a modified Eastman. It would have the distinct advantage of having a proper neck and take loop end strings. Also, the Weber has that Boom! I played Mark’s cello at Symposium and I have never lost the sound of that instrument, HUGE!! I have to admit, my Kentucky mandolin and Eastman Mandola represent enormous value, but if the cost is going to basically be the same, the buying American thing begins to weigh on my conscience.

I am a bit dubious about a guitar conversion as without going whole hog and sliming the neck, it is still a guitar neck.

What else should I be considering that I may be overlooking?

[allenhopkins]

Have you considered a used Gibson? There are K-1's for sale around the $3K level, which is what you'd pay for the Gallatin. Of course, you're dealing with a 75+ year old instrument, so condition and dealer support may be more crucial.

You're going to be saving around $1K by buying the Eastman MDC-805, but if you want extensive modification that'll ratchet the price up a bit. The old Gibsons have that deep "boom" sound you like -- also baseball-bat necks, it that's a consideration.

I have a K-1 and an Eastman, and they're quite different instruments, in feel, sound, and, yes, resale value. Like 'em both.

Regarding the ball-end vs. loop-end, you can get ball-end strings of the same gauges as the J-78 D'Addarios. Really, the same strings, except for the attachment system.

[Ken Olmstead]

Thanks Allen, yeah vintage instruments and I have never gotten along! I prefer to gaze on them longingly but at a distance!

According to the Dennis at the Mandolin Store, a base Gallatin A will run me about $2,300. The Eastman is $2,098. So pretty close. The Eastman is much prettier but I think the edge in playability and my preference in sound would lean toward the Weber.

Still on the fence, but options are kind of light. (Of course I have eliminated flat tops, guitar conversions and vintage) So I guess another way to put it is that I have narrowed my choices down...

[Jim Garber]

Ken: why did you eliminate flattops? I have a friend who for years has played a Dell Arte Selmer-style mandocello and that thing boomed. And i heard that the dreadnaughty Santa Cruz is a a true boomer as well. Certainly, if you do want boom think the difference between a flattop D-28 and an archtop maple back. Very different in the boom department.

[Martin Jonas]

I'm still finding my way around my own new mandocello, but one thing I can say is that it's very nice and cost far less than any of the options you've listed (I paid 650 Euro). It's a Suzuki MC-815, probably from the 1980s by the look of it. That model isn't made any more, but it seem from the Suzuki homepage that they're still making a current model on the same design, the MC-836 (Link). The obvious difference is that the current one is rosewood backed instead of birdseye maple like mine. Unlike all their other mandolin family instruments, it's a flatback, not a bowlback. No idea whether anybody imports them to the US, or whether one can order from Japan. There seems to be confusion as to the price: Amazon JP lists it for 63000 Yen, which would be only US$610. Their Australian importer (Link) gives an RRP of Aus$1795, which is US$1627, almost three times the price in Japan. A Greek importer sells it for 1000 Euro (Link), which splits the difference.

Martin

[Eddie Sheehy]

Walt Kuhlman (Gypsys Music) makes a Mandocello with an induced arch... He'll custom build one with whatever woods you want.

[Ken Olmstead]

Ken: why did you eliminate flattops? I have a friend who for years has played a Dell Arte Selmer-style mandocello and that thing boomed. And i heard that the dreadnaughty Santa Cruz is a a true boomer as well. Certainly, if you do want boom think the difference between a flattop D-28 and an archtop maple back. Very different in the boom department.

You know, good question Jim! That Santa Cruz seemed a bit pricey I guess. Charles at MWH has one and he might take a 335 in trade that I have. Hmmmm...

I think that Flat Top thing comes from a time that I played a Weber Tamarac or some such and it was cool but did not blow sun up my skirt.

I'm still finding my way around my own new mandocello, but one thing I can say is that it's very nice and cost far less than any of the options you've listed (I paid 650 Euro). It's a Suzuki MC-815, probably from the 1980s by the look of it. That model isn't made any more, but it seem from the Suzuki homepage that they're still making a current model on the same design, the MC-836 (Link). The obvious difference is that the current one is rosewood backed instead of birdseye maple like mine. Unlike all their other mandolin family instruments, it's a flatback, not a bowlback. No idea whether anybody imports them to the US, or whether one can order from Japan. There seems to be confusion as to the price: Amazon JP lists it for 63000 Yen, which would be only US$610. Their Australian importer (Link) gives an RRP of Aus$1795, which is US$1627, almost three times the price in Japan. A Greek importer sells it for 1000 Euro (Link), which splits the difference.

Martin

Interesting, I did not even know of its existence!

[Jim M.]

I'd ask Phil Crump, http://www.pwcrumpco.com/zouk.html, if he can make one of his bouzoukis into a mandocello. Incredible quality, and listen to the sound samples if you want to hear some boom.

[Ken Olmstead]

I think in the end I would be happy with a Weber or an Eastman...

It would probably be a matter of just getting settled in and pulling the sounds out.

[Eddie Sheehy]

I think Walt would make you a nice one for less than any of the above-mentioned...

[Ken Olmstead]

I think Walt would make you a nice one for less than any of the above-mentioned...

Thanks Eddie, I just have my eye on an Eastman or the Weber. Actually, at the moment the Eastman is back out in front. Crazy!

[Bernie Daniel]

Yes mandocellos are not for everyone -- they are on the outer fringes of practicality for a fretted instrument IMO. But if you really want one you could roll your own?

Here are pics of the three mandocellos I made from arch top guitars. Depending on how fancy you want to get you could fix yourself up with a mandocello for less perhaps than you think. The Loar makes the LH-300 a very nice solid maple and spruce, jumbo arch top guitar --you could get a new one for $600. These would make a nice platform for a mandocello.

First, you have to redo the head stock, then if you retained the wider guitar neck and just center the four mandocello courses on the nut, (i.e., make a new nut); then content yourself with 20 frets/no treble extension, and finally redo the bridge and tail piece, I think good luthier should be able to set you up for and additional $300 - 350? So $900 to $950 for a "new' mandocello. And using an arch top body as the platform for a mandocello is a Loyd Loar proven concept after all! And the Eastman MDC805 is modern day proof that Loar had a good idea.

Using a flat top guitar as the basis for a round hole mandocello is also possible but I do not have a lot of confidence that most flat top guitars are braced to deal with the added 25 - 30 lbs of downward vectored pressure that a mandocello would add to the top -- compared to a 6 string guitar. Some flat tops could I am sure but which ones? Maybe start with a 12 string flat top -- they seem to cost less anyway?

If you wanted to do a new fret board and slim the neck down maybe the modifications will cost you the guitar plus $500 or so for labor -- you could save money by doing some of the work yourself

Of course all are f-hole instruments and I think a case can be made that a round or oval hole mandocello might be fit more applications better than the f-hole --simply because if the extra sustain characteristic of the oval. If you consider a round hole though I would be very careful about guitar if it is a flat top and really I would look for a carved arch top oval hole --but such are not exactly common I guess?

[Eddie Sheehy]

NFI on my part, just letting you know what's out there...

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...psy+mandocello

[Ken Olmstead]

NFI on my part, just letting you know what's out there...

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...psy+mandocello

Yeah his stuff is gorgeous Eddie but I just don't connect with that Celtic Tear Drop, flat top look. I know I may be cutting off my nose to spite my face as it certainly is a well made instrument and may sound awesome!

Bernie, if I did that kind of work I would convert them like you have done; however, I think I am going to buy one off the rack for my first time out!

[CES]

Ken, if I were in your shoes (and the only reason I'm not is that I've struggled enough with the scale on OM that I'm not going cello), I'd go with the Weber. Bruce is famous for his customer service, and it will hold its value well. My Hyalite OM is an extremely well made instrument, even at that "lower" level, and it sounds great. TMS will make sure it's right before it gets to you (or at least leave you room to raise the action to your preferences). Nothing against Eastman, really, but you won't have to worry about your tailpiece exploding with the Weber. And if it does, Bruce will make it right!

I played a rattlesnake cello at carter vintage last July and almost caught the cello bug again. Love that thump...but I'll just play bass instead

[Bernie Daniel]

Ken, if I were in your shoes ....I'd go with the Weber. Bruce is famous for his customer service, and it will hold its value well. ...Nothing against Eastman, really, but you won't have to worry about your tailpiece exploding with the Weber. And if it does, Bruce will make it right!...

I have to say I agree with this 100% -- it would be hard to find a better person to do business with. Hope things are going well with the merger and the move to Bend.

[Ken Olmstead]

Ken, if I were in your shoes (and the only reason I'm not is that I've struggled enough with the scale on OM that I'm not going cello), I'd go with the Weber. Bruce is famous for his customer service, and it will hold its value well. My Hyalite OM is an extremely well made instrument, even at that "lower" level, and it sounds great. TMS will make sure it's right before it gets to you (or at least leave you room to raise the action to your preferences). Nothing against Eastman, really, but you won't have to worry about your tailpiece exploding with the Weber. And if it does, Bruce will make it right!

I played a rattlesnake cello at carter vintage last July and almost caught the cello bug again. Love that thump...but I'll just play bass instead

I have to say I agree with this 100% -- it would be hard to find a better person to do business with. Hope things are going well with the merger and the move to Bend.

Having played a Weber Fern for years and loving every minute of it, I am keenly aware that Weber's commitment to customers is beyond stellar! However, I have decided to try the Eastman. I have a picture in my mind that is tough to shake and if I buy a Weber, it will open Pandora's box, and I am just not prepared for that to happen at the moment!!

[hank]

If you can find a used Eastman that has the look you prefer you could send it off to Randy Wood for Top removal and tweeking to get closer to the tone and response your listening for. I'm not sure if it can be done but Mr. Wood could elaborate the leading particulars of such an undertaking.

[hank]

Ken, drifting from the subject, your avatar has a lot of inlay potential for a mandocello. Perhaps an avatar matching pick guard for your new Eastman. The North Star and dipper will be similar to your hand and little finger pointing to all those out of reach double-stops. Good luck with your purchase.

[Bernie Daniel]

Having played a Weber Fern for years and loving every minute of it, I am keenly aware that Weber's commitment to customers is beyond stellar! However, I have decided to try the Eastman. I have a picture in my mind that is tough to shake and if I buy a Weber, it will open Pandora's box, and I am just not prepared for that to happen at the moment!!

I am sure you will be happy with an Eastman MDC805 also especially if you more the courses toward the center 1.5" of the fret board. This will make doing the mandocello thing a lot easier. Good hunting!

[Eric Hanson]

Ken,

One fleeting thought before you buy.

If I remember right, Bill Bussman has made a few. He always gets Kudos her on the Cafe. I am sure he cold build it with a reduced size neck to your liking.

Just a thought. :-)

[Mandobart]

I've been playing the Eastman 'cello now since 2009, strung up with heavier than stock strings. No problems with it, and it does sound good.

[CES]

Agree, hope the merger goes well and doesn't ultimately change the Weber rep...

Ken, totally understand, and I'm sure you'll enjoy the Eastman. I bought my OM under very similar circumstances (ie, I decided that's what I wanted, and, despite a couple of other great options, including a Newell and I think a Gypsy that popped up, I went with what I went with). Honestly, far better to go with your own gut! Would love to hear some sound clips when you get up and running...

[Ken Olmstead]

Ordered the Eastman today! We shall see!

[Marcus CA]

Also, the Weber has that Boom! I played Mark’s cello at Symposium and I have never lost the sound of that instrument, HUGE!!

Yup! The sound goes through its back to wallop you in the gut and flies out the front. I've played a few of the old Gibson K's, and wouldn't trade it for any of them.

Have a great time with the Eastman, and give it lots of time and action to open it up!