Celtic - what should I listen to?

[Astabeth]

Okay, I got my first (I know how it works!) mandolin yesterday. I have been looking around for things to try to play. I play a little guitar, so I can already do a few chords, but I am looking for melodies. It seems like a good way to start is to choose a genre and work from there. I love Celtic music, but I don't know the names of any of the songs. When I look at Celtic music sites, I am overwhelmed with titles I don't recognize.

Is there a website / youtube playlist / cd I can get with lots of standards that I can listen to so I can learn some of the melodies and learn the titles? I would prefer something I can play in the car, while walking, etc. so I can listen to them while doing other things. I am mainly trying to figure out what would be the most commonly played / popular tunes so I can then get online to find the music so I can learn to play them.

The music doesn't have to be mandolin music, but it would be nice if it were.

Thank you so much!

[Dagger Gordon]

There was a classic Irish band called The Bothy Band in the seventies.

Start by listening to them. One of the best and most influential bands ever. Essential listening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bothy_Band

[Mike Anderson]

I'll add De Danann, especially the first few albums. They changed the spelling of their name on later albums, so pardon any confusion caused by the Wikipedia spelling. Mick Moloney and Seamus Egan have some good mandolin work on their many albums, and you really should check out Planxty with Andy Irvine and sometimes Johnny Moynihan on mandolin.

[montana]

Mick Moloney's 'Strings Attached' album will make you want to quit, so maybe you should hold off on that one!

[Astabeth]

Okay, I have bought some of The Bothy Band's albums. I am having trouble finding De Dannan's first few, but they are on YouTube. Which Planxty album is best? The first one - Planxty? I also bought The Green Fields of America - there was one I recognize on that one. Most of the songs I know are ones that have been done by the Pogues.

[Mandohammer]

For huge mandolin content, I recommend The Green Mandolin by David Surrette. Tablature for most of the tunes is easily available online, and as a bluegrasser for the most part, this recording has been serving as my intro to Celtic material as well as a very listenable package. Enjoy!

[Mike Anderson]

You sure can't go wrong with the first Planxty album, but there's also a hits compilation called "The Planxty Collection" which includes a song that isn't on any of the other albums.

[Marty Jacobson]

Some of these are more 60's folk than true traditional Celtic, but all good, I think:
Tannahill Weavers
Andy Irvine and Paul Brady (also Planxty and Patrick Street, other projects in which Andy was involved)
The McCalmans
The Corries
Wolfe Tones
Arthur & Finbar Furey
Eric Bogle
Silly Wizard
June Tabor
Sinead O'Connor
Talitha Mackenzie
Boys of the Lough

..among others... I know these are not all standards, but should get you inspired, I'd think.

[Roland Sturm]

It depends a bit on your goal, are you looking
a) for a set of standard tunes that most session players would know?
b) Well known songs?
c) Or just an introduction to more successful/influential bands?

Seems like the suggestions fall largely into the 3rd category. Most recordings will have a few well-known standards mixed with more obscure things. Usually people's first recordings tend to be heavier on standards rather than later. My suggestion for c) would be Altan, I would rank them as incredibly influential. Start with their more traditional CDs on Green Linnet: Red Crow, Horse with a Heart,

If you look for recordings that would be great to listen to, but more for a) (i.e. instrumental tunes rather than songs), I'd go a different route. Here would be a list of fiddle-centric recordings:
- The first two Kevin Burke (Sweeney's Dream, If the cap fits). Burke was the fiddler in the Bothy band (which was a good start).
- Tommy Peoples: Iron Man and Waiting for a Call (even though that is his latest one).
- While I love Martin Hayes, he often moves tunes into different keys or changes the arrangement to make them sound unique, but sufficiently idiosyncratic to not work in sessions. Under the Moon or Martin Hayes are my favorites.
- rather than a DeDannan CD, I would look for Frankie Gavin and Alec Finn's Masters of Irish Music CD (the two were the only two constant members of De Dannan). Mostly standards and easy to find.

Another approach, definitely meant more for educational purposes than as a listening/artistic experience would be those compilation of session tunes:
http://www.amazon.com/Foinn-Seisi%C3...t_mus_dp_dpt_1
It gives you a good idea of how standards will sound in pub sessions, so possibly the best way to achieve your learning goal.

Yet a third take would be starting historically, although maybe not something to touch until you have a few dozen other recordings. Scratchy and raw, so less accessible for listening than more modern recordings, but also not as good for learning. Michael Coleman would be the start because of the historically pivotal role of the early recordings. Others of that era might be James Morrison, or Paddy Killoran, Michael Gorman.

[Mike Anderson]

I have all three Foinn Seisiun albums now (got the digital downloads from CDbaby) and they are a fantastic resource for learning the standard trad tunes!

[Paul Brett]

Learn abc, IMHO there's no quicker way to learn tunes. Then go to thesession.org and look at the top downloaded tunes, look for audio on youtube or buy tracks online, then download the abc from thesession.org.

I played in "The Largest Ceili Band in the World" record attempt last October in Cork and when I got the list of tunes, about 6 weeks before the event, I didn't know 75% of the tunes. With thesession.org I was able to learn all but 2 or 3 tunes which were a bit to fast for my ability.

The only other thing I'd say is almost each and every musician you will meet at a trad session will overwhelm you with helpful information listen carefully to each and every bit of it. I couldn't explain how much I've learned from talking to other musicians in an informal setting.

Listen to as much as you can and enjoy. There's no greater gift.

[Roland Sturm]

Thesession.org is very helpful to identify the most popular tunes (see how many people put them into their tunebooks), sources of recordings, and occasionally even alternative ABCs. However, it is not a good source for notation because the ABC notation for many tunes is very problematic, even for some of the most standard tunes. Careless and sloppy notation, many errors, and - in cases where it is more carefully done - sometimes idiosyncratic settings.

I've led intermediate sessions for the California Traditional Music Society for a number of years and you could tell if people learned using ABCs from thesession. I steered them away from it. It's fine if you have enough experience that you can can tell mistakes from alternative settings and from more standard settings, but not for beginners.

There are better alternatives for notation. The best free fake book collection for celtic sessions is Mike Long's King Street Session book, link in a recent column I did on fake books
http://folkworks.org/columns/jigs-an...ne-collections.

[Bertram Henze]

One hint, since you obviously get rained with good directions already: don't try to do it all at once. Instead, pick one simple tune you like, learn to play it slowly but steadily (your first and best playing partner should be a metronome), and when you got it down you'll find that speed will increase by itself and that the tune will start to resemble what you heard on the recording. Then (and only then) pick a second tune and so on.

There are lots of Irish & Scottish tunes among those played on the Song-a-Week social group here on the Cafe; the many versions there can give you an idea what is possible on mandolin family instruments.

[Mike Anderson]

- rather than a DeDannan CD, I would look for Frankie Gavin and Alec Finn's Masters of Irish Music CD (the two were the only two constant members of De Dannan). Mostly standards and easy to find.

I absolutely agree with Roland here, but had no idea it was easy to find.

[Roland Sturm]

I absolutely agree with Roland here, but had no idea it was easy to find.

Yes, the world has changed, Amazon prime now delivers in 2 days, or immediate download. 10 years ago, this would have been a long hunt to find it. Very mesmerizing how the two played together, the only other duo like that would be Martin Hayes/Dennis Cahill.

Only downside of the Masters of Irish Music CD is its short duration. But great to listen to and a good ratio of very common session tunes.

Probably more related to other posts around here, but there are two other interesting points here:
1) it's ok to just play one tune. Masters of Irish Music or Hayes/Cahill's Welcome here again CD do that. A lot of people think they have to have a set with multiple tunes before they can go to a session.
2) don't need 5--course citterns or a masterful right hand. Check out Finn's bouzouki (I presume D-A-D) and he does almost nothing (just like Cahill often plays very sparsely), yet it is just brilliant. Don't need to many chords either (although then practice your smooth capo changes, around 1:42). Kind of goofy look to this TV clip, but this shows Gavin/Finn really well (and then you know if you want to buy something from those guys or their group).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wmyM9g3RIM

[Astabeth]

Mandohammer, I can't find the David Surrette. Mike & Marty, I will pick one of the Planxty albums to check out. If you were only buying one, would you get Planxty or the Planxty Collection? Roland - mostly b, because I doubt I'll get the chance to play with anyone, and thanks for the link - 116 songs for $6.99! The King Street Sessions book looks helpful, and I recognize some of the titles just from the music I've looked at today. Bertram, I will definitely check out the song a week group.

That bouzouki is beautiful. I don't believe I've ever heard of one!

Thank you all for the help.

[citeog]

The BBC Radio "Virtual Session" is another great resource. You can play along with the recorded tune and read the "dots" at the same time.

Paul

[Roland Sturm]

The music doesn't have to be mandolin music, but it would be nice if it were.

Andy Irvine played mandolin in Planxty, although probably more often bouzouki or octave mandolin, so you'll hear a bit.

The suggestions so far seems influential recordings and/or compilation of commonly played tunes. I don't think there are any recordings with mandolin as the lead instrument that would fall into that area, but there certainly are many beautiful mandolin recordings.

One of the prettiest is Simon Mayor's New Celtic Mandolin. That really is a fantastic CD, among my favorite CDs, all genres. But few standard session tunes and among those that are he may change the key (e.g. the butterfly). But if you want a celtic mandolin CD for the listening experience, that's where I would start.

Other celtic mandolin CD's I like where mandolin is the lead instrument:
-Marla Fibish and Jimmy Crowley, Morning Star
- Kevin MacLeod, Springwell and Dorney Rock (some standard tunes, but Scottish standards). I've posted a sheet music for one of tune from Dorney Rock in another thread. In fact, that is an interesting thread on issues of how to adapt such tunes for mandolin because somebody tried to work from bagpipe notes. http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...gadier+general
- Joseph Sobel, Citternalia (well, sort of mandolin)
- David Surrette, Green mandolin as mentioned before

[Dave Hanson]

Early Dubliners, superb fiddle, tenor banjo and mandolin. These lads were doing it years before the above mentioned groups.


Dave H

[Roland Sturm]

No doubt, early Dubliners were an innovative and hugely popular group in the 60s, together with the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makeham. Dubliners may have been the group that established the Irish tenor banjo tuning as a common standard. The Dubliners were among the first Irish bands I listened to. I'd group them as 60s folk style, mainly songs. As a US analogue, probably more along the lines of Pete Seeger and the Weavers, Kingston Trio, rather than , say, Tommy Jarrell (traditional old-time dance tunes) as a US analogue. Dubliners were particularly heavy on drinking songs, just some sprinkling of political songs.

So this goes back to what Astabeth wants to get out of it, so tell us:

It depends a bit on your goal, are you looking
a) for a set of standard tunes that most ITM session players would know?
b) Well known songs?
c) Or just an introduction to more successful/influential bands?

Dubliners would cover b) and c). But not a), what usually is labeled as Irish Traditional Music and abbreviated as ITM, which was my take on this thread. You can buy the first four Dubliner recordings from the 60s and there may be less than a handful of standard session tunes across them. Just like listening to Joan Baez and Pete Seeger won't get you ready for the type of music that is played at old-time (or bluegrass) jams.

[catmandu2]

Okay, I got my first (I know how it works!) mandolin yesterday. I have been looking around for things to try to play. I play a little guitar, so I can already do a few chords, but I am looking for melodies. It seems like a good way to start is to choose a genre and work from there. I love Celtic music, but I don't know the names of any of the songs. When I look at Celtic music sites, I am overwhelmed with titles I don't recognize.

Is there a website / youtube playlist / cd I can get with lots of standards that I can listen to so I can learn some of the melodies and learn the titles? I would prefer something I can play in the car, while walking, etc. so I can listen to them while doing other things. I am mainly trying to figure out what would be the most commonly played / popular tunes so I can then get online to find the music so I can learn to play them.

The music doesn't have to be mandolin music, but it would be nice if it were.

Thank you so much!

Do you learn tunes by ear? I'm biased, but I think this would be most fruitful

When I was getting into ITM I purchased several tune books (for fiddle, concertina and accordion)--mainly to get the accompanying CD, from which I learn the tunes. These are helpful in that--the tunes are kept short and clearly played without much embellishment, so we get the essence of the tune, quickly. These are very handy for learning tunes "on the fly"--in the car, etc, and acquiring lots of tunes..

[Cheryl Watson]

I second Mandohammer's recommendation for David Surrette's "Green Mandolin", and I want to add Dan Beimborn's "Shatter the Calm" and "Torch and Wire."

For huge mandolin content, I recommend The Green Mandolin by David Surrette. Tablature for most of the tunes is easily available online, and as a bluegrasser for the most part, this recording has been serving as my intro to Celtic material as well as a very listenable package. Enjoy!

[Sid Simpson]

If you are looking for instructional materials, you couldn't do much better than Marla Fibish. http://www.marlafibish.com/ . She has an instructional DVD which covers the basics and teaches a few tunes. It never hurts to get started with some good habits and direction from an expert. Plus, she's a really great person who teaches at camps and symposia all over the country, so you might be fortunate enough to get some in person instruction.

[Ethan Setiawan]

The current Irish mando player is Marla Fibish. She really gets the Irish sound out of a mandolin and is worth listening to just for phrasing and fingering options. She has several CDs.

I think Surette is spelled with just one r.

[Mike Anderson]

The current Irish mando player is Marla Fibish.

The current Irish mando player - you mean there's only one? That'll come as a surprise to Joe, the mandolin player in the session I attend. Especially since he's actually from Ireland.