"What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

[Paul Busman]

I came across this thread on Banjohangout.org and thought people here might either want to follow it over there (lots of nice, helpful people) or pick it up here:

http://www.banjohangout.org/topic/273165

[George R. Lane]

I find it interesting that a they feel Earl Scruggs was the inventor of the genre. I agree that Earl added the icing on the cake, but Bill assembled the ingredients (the musicians) and baked the cake. Without him the music would have probably would have been created, but what would it have sounded like?

[jromano23]

I've always thought this to be an interesting debate, no matter what the genre. As a lifelong Bob Dylan fan, I've found myself debating if there is such a thing as invention in music. Bob, possibly one of the most acknowledged artistic thieves, makes his practice by taking from what exists and painting it into a picture that is both familiar and new. While some would criticize this as a lack of originality, I would argue that it's the essence of musical form and folk tradition going back to Chaucer and Shakespeare. That said, there are figures who change the game entirely. It's hard not to recognize the mark left by Louis Armstrong in the evolution of jazz and likewise Bill Monroe in bluegrass. Perhaps like Dylan, Monroe knew how to package and market his form of music in a way all together his own. Like all great music, Monroe was able to tap into the ancient while creating something new with room to grow thanks to those like Earl Scruggs and the generations of players to follow.

[Bluetickhound]

No less an innovator and recognized master than the late, great Jaco Pastorius said "No good musicians borrow... They STEAL!!"...

[pheffernan]

No less an innovator and recognized master than the late, great Jaco Pastorius said "No good musicians borrow... They STEAL!!"...

Of course, he stole that line from Stravinsky, who reportedly said "lesser artists borrow, great artists steal," or perhaps T.S. Eliot, who wrote, " Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal."

[OldSausage]

I am never forget the day...

[M.Marmot]

Bill Monroe?

Ain't he the father of telling people that various things ain't bluegrass?

[allenhopkins]

...Ain't he the father of telling people that various things ain't bluegrass?

That too.

Monroe took his own musical influences, ranging from hillbilly dance fiddling, through blues, "cowboy" balladry, jazz-influenced improvisation, and structured, hymn-influenced vocal harmonies, and put together a series of Blue Grass Boys bands that played the way he wanted them to. When he found a sideman or a style he liked -- Scruggs' three-finger banjo picking, Wise's long-bow swing-y fiddling -- he made his subsequent musicians emulate them. His mandolin playing, both lead and rhythm, was inventive and near-unique, and bluegrass mandolinists ever since have been compared to him.

All the elements of bluegrass were around before Monroe put them together -- but they were found in different genres. You could call him a synthesizer rather than an inventor, but the fact is that no one was playing in that precise style before he started doing it, and everyone after who plays in that style shows his, and his band's, influences.

I was a bit amused in the Banjo Hangout thread, that one poster thought that Monroe had taken the hillbilly comedy out of his music. Actually, when he headlined his tent show tours, he always had a comedy team as one of the acts. Unlike Flatt & Scruggs , Reno & Smiley et. al., he didn't have his band members adopt alternate personae as comedians -- compare Burkett "Uncle Josh" Graves and English P. "Cousin Jake" Tullock in the Foggy Mountain Boys.

Bill Monroe first put together the musical style we call bluegrass. No one would argue that point. If that don't make him an "inventor," he's pretty damn close.

[Bluetickhound]

Of course, he stole that line from Stravinsky, who reportedly said "lesser artists borrow, great artists steal," or perhaps T.S. Eliot, who wrote, " Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal."

Further proof of Jaco's genius... He could blatantly steal that line and make folks believe it was an original thought!

[Bluetickhound]

This all kinda reminds me of James Burke's TV show "Connections" back in the day... He would take a modern development, say... The mass production of the automobile... And go back hundreds, if not thousands of years and show how all the already existing yet seemingly non connected elements were subsequently put together by (in this case) Henry Ford...

[mandolirius]

After enough posts they eventually got it mostly right. They figured out that no one actually "invents" music, they addressed the statement that bluegrass would have been a mere footnote without Earl and they correctly identified Monroe's major musical contributions. The one glaring error was the claim that Monroe was a superb businessman. Even a casual look into his bio puts the lie to that straightaway. All-in-all, not bad for banjo players.

[Jim Adwell]

I am never forget the day...

Seems a bit strange to think that Tom Lehrer first performed this song in public when, as Bill* would say, I was mewling and puking in my mother's arms, a mere infant. I'm 62 now.




* Shakespeare, not Monroe.

[Londy]

Who's Bill Monroe?

[Popeye39]

Who's Bill Monroe?

Inventor of the triple negative...

[Killian King]

I am never forget the day...

plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize -
Only be sure always to call it please 'research'.

[almeriastrings]

The answer is not that hard to arrive at. The Bear Family box set, especially that material covering 1936-1949 period is pretty definitive. You can hear many, many elements of bluegrass prior to Earl and Lester joining the band - but when Earl bought his three-finger style with him, Blue Grass became "bluegrass, as we know it, Jim". It was a fortunate conjunction of several talented musicians who together came up with a totally unique sound of their own. No doubt too that Earl fired Monroe up (he never much liked being put in the shadow instrumentally), so again, there is that effect of one great musician driving another on to work harder and become even more innovative. You can hear that in Earl too - with Monroe, he really sharpened up. They pushed each other. It set the stage for everything that followed. Of course, Earl did not invent the three-finger style in the first place, but he took it further than anyone else had, and pretty much made it his own.

[FLATROCK HILL]

Inventor of the triple negative...

Not bad. It's late though and it took me a few minutes...

[mandolirius]

Inventor of the triple negative...

Very handy if you REALLY want to express your displeasure with something.

[mrmando]

The one glaring error was the claim that Monroe was a superb businessman. Even a casual look into his bio puts the lie to that straightaway.

Yeah, wasn't it Louise Scruggs who turned out to be the better businessman?

[David Lewis]

I don't think earl would have been more than a regional musician. That three finger style was popular in nth Carolina but rare elsewhere. Bill does it. Earl however, thanks to Louise sells it.

[DataNick]

Of course, he stole that line from Stravinsky, who reportedly said "lesser artists borrow, great artists steal," or perhaps T.S. Eliot, who wrote, " Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal."

I thought it was Picasso who said "good artists borrow, great artists steal"

[Ivan Kelsall]

I think that it's a pretty much aknowledged fact that Earl's banjo playing brought Bill Monroe's music to prominence.It was Earl's unique (at that time) style that got audiences on their feet & hollerin' for more. You might say that the 'perfect cake' got the 'perfect icing' on it. According to what i've read,especially from Neil Rosenberg's book,that was when folks began to ask the radio stations for more of that 'Bluegrass band style' music,which according to Neil,eventually 'named the style' Bluegrass.There's no doubt in my mind that when Earl joined Bill Monroe,we had a band that vastly exceeded the sum of it's parts,possibly one of the greatest 'comings together' ever, in any musical genre,
Ivan

[Beanzy]

Yep.
Bill built a fine aeroplane in a new style and Earl added a jet engine to it.
I reckon BM was definitely in the pilot seat the whole time.

[pheffernan]

I thought it was Picasso who said "good artists borrow, great artists steal"

That's just what Steve Jobs wanted you to believe.

[Jim]

There's no doubt in my mind that when Earl joined Bill Monroe,we had a band that vastly exceeded the sum of it's parts,possibly one of the greatest 'comings together' ever, in any musical genre,

Yep!