Page 1 of 8 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 176

Thread: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

  1. #1
    Mediocre but OK with that Paul Busman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Frederick,MD
    Posts
    2,295

    Default "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    I came across this thread on Banjohangout.org and thought people here might either want to follow it over there (lots of nice, helpful people) or pick it up here:

    http://www.banjohangout.org/topic/273165
    For wooden musical fun that doesn't involve strumming, check out:
    www.busmanwhistles.com
    Handcrafted pennywhistles in exotic hardwoods.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Helena, Montana
    Posts
    2,872

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    I find it interesting that a they feel Earl Scruggs was the inventor of the genre. I agree that Earl added the icing on the cake, but Bill assembled the ingredients (the musicians) and baked the cake. Without him the music would have probably would have been created, but what would it have sounded like?

  3. #3

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    I've always thought this to be an interesting debate, no matter what the genre. As a lifelong Bob Dylan fan, I've found myself debating if there is such a thing as invention in music. Bob, possibly one of the most acknowledged artistic thieves, makes his practice by taking from what exists and painting it into a picture that is both familiar and new. While some would criticize this as a lack of originality, I would argue that it's the essence of musical form and folk tradition going back to Chaucer and Shakespeare. That said, there are figures who change the game entirely. It's hard not to recognize the mark left by Louis Armstrong in the evolution of jazz and likewise Bill Monroe in bluegrass. Perhaps like Dylan, Monroe knew how to package and market his form of music in a way all together his own. Like all great music, Monroe was able to tap into the ancient while creating something new with room to grow thanks to those like Earl Scruggs and the generations of players to follow.

  4. The following members say thank you to jromano23 for this post:


  5. #4
    working for the mando.... Bluetickhound's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Peachtree City, Ga (aka, the bubble)
    Posts
    682

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    No less an innovator and recognized master than the late, great Jaco Pastorius said "No good musicians borrow... They STEAL!!"...

  6. The following members say thank you to Bluetickhound for this post:


  7. #5
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    2,804

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluetickhound View Post
    No less an innovator and recognized master than the late, great Jaco Pastorius said "No good musicians borrow... They STEAL!!"...
    Of course, he stole that line from Stravinsky, who reportedly said "lesser artists borrow, great artists steal," or perhaps T.S. Eliot, who wrote, " Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal."
    1924 Gibson A Snakehead
    2005 National RM-1
    2007 Hester A5
    2009 Passernig A5
    2015 Black A2-z
    2010 Black GBOM
    2017 Poe Scout
    2011 Passernig F5
    2018 Vessel TM5

  8. The following members say thank you to pheffernan for this post:


  9. #6

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    I am never forget the day...


  10. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to OldSausage For This Useful Post:


  11. #7
    Au fol la marotte
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Cote Rotie.
    Posts
    823
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    Bill Monroe?

    Ain't he the father of telling people that various things ain't bluegrass?

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to M.Marmot For This Useful Post:


  13. #8
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Rochester NY 14610
    Posts
    16,013

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    Quote Originally Posted by M.Marmot View Post
    ...Ain't he the father of telling people that various things ain't bluegrass?
    That too.

    Monroe took his own musical influences, ranging from hillbilly dance fiddling, through blues, "cowboy" balladry, jazz-influenced improvisation, and structured, hymn-influenced vocal harmonies, and put together a series of Blue Grass Boys bands that played the way he wanted them to. When he found a sideman or a style he liked -- Scruggs' three-finger banjo picking, Wise's long-bow swing-y fiddling -- he made his subsequent musicians emulate them. His mandolin playing, both lead and rhythm, was inventive and near-unique, and bluegrass mandolinists ever since have been compared to him.

    All the elements of bluegrass were around before Monroe put them together -- but they were found in different genres. You could call him a synthesizer rather than an inventor, but the fact is that no one was playing in that precise style before he started doing it, and everyone after who plays in that style shows his, and his band's, influences.

    I was a bit amused in the Banjo Hangout thread, that one poster thought that Monroe had taken the hillbilly comedy out of his music. Actually, when he headlined his tent show tours, he always had a comedy team as one of the acts. Unlike Flatt & Scruggs , Reno & Smiley et. al., he didn't have his band members adopt alternate personae as comedians -- compare Burkett "Uncle Josh" Graves and English P. "Cousin Jake" Tullock in the Foggy Mountain Boys.

    Bill Monroe first put together the musical style we call bluegrass. No one would argue that point. If that don't make him an "inventor," he's pretty damn close.
    Allen Hopkins
    Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
    Natl Triolian Dobro mando
    Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
    H-O mandolinetto
    Stradolin Vega banjolin
    Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
    Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
    Flatiron 3K OM

  14. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to allenhopkins For This Useful Post:


  15. #9
    working for the mando.... Bluetickhound's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Peachtree City, Ga (aka, the bubble)
    Posts
    682

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    Quote Originally Posted by pheffernan View Post
    Of course, he stole that line from Stravinsky, who reportedly said "lesser artists borrow, great artists steal," or perhaps T.S. Eliot, who wrote, " Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal."
    Further proof of Jaco's genius... He could blatantly steal that line and make folks believe it was an original thought!

  16. #10
    working for the mando.... Bluetickhound's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Peachtree City, Ga (aka, the bubble)
    Posts
    682

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    This all kinda reminds me of James Burke's TV show "Connections" back in the day... He would take a modern development, say... The mass production of the automobile... And go back hundreds, if not thousands of years and show how all the already existing yet seemingly non connected elements were subsequently put together by (in this case) Henry Ford...

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bluetickhound For This Useful Post:


  18. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    victoria, canada
    Posts
    3,514

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    After enough posts they eventually got it mostly right. They figured out that no one actually "invents" music, they addressed the statement that bluegrass would have been a mere footnote without Earl and they correctly identified Monroe's major musical contributions. The one glaring error was the claim that Monroe was a superb businessman. Even a casual look into his bio puts the lie to that straightaway. All-in-all, not bad for banjo players.

  19. The following members say thank you to mandolirius for this post:


  20. #12
    Registered User Jim Adwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Ocala, FL
    Posts
    515

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSausage View Post
    I am never forget the day...

    Seems a bit strange to think that Tom Lehrer first performed this song in public when, as Bill* would say, I was mewling and puking in my mother's arms, a mere infant. I'm 62 now.




    * Shakespeare, not Monroe.

  21. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jim Adwell For This Useful Post:


  22. #13
    Registered User Londy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    865

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    Who's Bill Monroe?
    "Money is a complication man created that the universe doesn't care about."

    Amateurs practice until they can play it right.
    Professionals practice until they can't play it wrong.

    Collings MTO
    Epiphone Mandobird IV
    Yamaha Piano
    Roland AX-1
    Personal

  23. #14
    Uppity Hillbilly Popeye39's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
    Posts
    103

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Londy View Post
    Who's Bill Monroe?
    Inventor of the triple negative...
    I blame Cher for a lot of things.
    "Is that the banjo player's Porsche?"

  24. The following members say thank you to Popeye39 for this post:


  25. #15
    somnamandolist Killian King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    274

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSausage View Post
    I am never forget the day...

    plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize -
    Only be sure always to call it please 'research'.

  26. #16
    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Almeria, Spain
    Posts
    5,441
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    The answer is not that hard to arrive at. The Bear Family box set, especially that material covering 1936-1949 period is pretty definitive. You can hear many, many elements of bluegrass prior to Earl and Lester joining the band - but when Earl bought his three-finger style with him, Blue Grass became "bluegrass, as we know it, Jim". It was a fortunate conjunction of several talented musicians who together came up with a totally unique sound of their own. No doubt too that Earl fired Monroe up (he never much liked being put in the shadow instrumentally), so again, there is that effect of one great musician driving another on to work harder and become even more innovative. You can hear that in Earl too - with Monroe, he really sharpened up. They pushed each other. It set the stage for everything that followed. Of course, Earl did not invent the three-finger style in the first place, but he took it further than anyone else had, and pretty much made it his own.
    Gibson F5 'Harvey' Fern, Gibson F5 'Derrington' Fern
    Distressed Silverangel F 'Esmerelda' aka 'Maxx'
    Northfield Big Mon #127
    Ellis F5 Special #288
    '39 & '45 D-18's, 1950 D-28.

  27. The following members say thank you to almeriastrings for this post:


  28. #17

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Popeye39 View Post
    Inventor of the triple negative...
    Not bad. It's late though and it took me a few minutes...

  29. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    victoria, canada
    Posts
    3,514

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Popeye39 View Post
    Inventor of the triple negative...
    Very handy if you REALLY want to express your displeasure with something.

  30. #19
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    12,027

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    Quote Originally Posted by mandolirius View Post
    The one glaring error was the claim that Monroe was a superb businessman. Even a casual look into his bio puts the lie to that straightaway.
    Yeah, wasn't it Louise Scruggs who turned out to be the better businessman?
    Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.

    Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy!

    Lyon & Healy Wood Thormahlen Andersen Bacorn Yanuziello Fender National Gibson Franke Fuchs Aceto Three Hungry Pit Bulls

  31. #20
    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,125

    Default

    I don't think earl would have been more than a regional musician. That three finger style was popular in nth Carolina but rare elsewhere. Bill does it. Earl however, thanks to Louise sells it.
    JBovier ELS; Epiphone MM-50 VN; Epiphone MM-40L; Gretsch New Yorker G9310; Washburn M1SDLB;

    Fender Nashville Deluxe Telecaster; Squier Modified Vintage Cabronita Telecaster; Gretsch 5420T; Fender Tim Armstrong Hellcat: Washburn Banjo B9; Ibanez RB 5string; Ibanez RB 4 string bass

    Pedalboard for ELS: Morley Cry baby Miniwah - Tuner - EHX Soul Food Overdrive - EHX Memory Toy analog Delay
    Fender Blues Jr Tweed; Fender Greta;

  32. #21
    Loarcutus of MandoBorg DataNick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Fallbrook, CA
    Posts
    3,837

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    Quote Originally Posted by pheffernan View Post
    Of course, he stole that line from Stravinsky, who reportedly said "lesser artists borrow, great artists steal," or perhaps T.S. Eliot, who wrote, " Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal."
    I thought it was Picasso who said "good artists borrow, great artists steal"
    1994 Gibson F5L made by Bruce Weber's team


    "Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
    "If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
    "I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
    "Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
    Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel

  33. #22
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Manchester - Lancashire - NW England
    Posts
    14,187

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    I think that it's a pretty much aknowledged fact that Earl's banjo playing brought Bill Monroe's music to prominence.It was Earl's unique (at that time) style that got audiences on their feet & hollerin' for more. You might say that the 'perfect cake' got the 'perfect icing' on it. According to what i've read,especially from Neil Rosenberg's book,that was when folks began to ask the radio stations for more of that 'Bluegrass band style' music,which according to Neil,eventually 'named the style' Bluegrass.There's no doubt in my mind that when Earl joined Bill Monroe,we had a band that vastly exceeded the sum of it's parts,possibly one of the greatest 'comings together' ever, in any musical genre,
    Ivan
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

  34. The following members say thank you to Ivan Kelsall for this post:


  35. #23
    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Cornwall & London
    Posts
    2,653
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    Yep.
    Bill built a fine aeroplane in a new style and Earl added a jet engine to it.
    I reckon BM was definitely in the pilot seat the whole time.
    Eoin



    "Forget that anyone is listening to you and always listen to yourself" - Fryderyk Chopin

  36. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Beanzy For This Useful Post:


  37. #24
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    2,804

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNick View Post
    I thought it was Picasso who said "good artists borrow, great artists steal"
    That's just what Steve Jobs wanted you to believe.
    1924 Gibson A Snakehead
    2005 National RM-1
    2007 Hester A5
    2009 Passernig A5
    2015 Black A2-z
    2010 Black GBOM
    2017 Poe Scout
    2011 Passernig F5
    2018 Vessel TM5

  38. The following members say thank you to pheffernan for this post:


  39. #25
    its a very very long song Jim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    BonCarbo CO.
    Posts
    2,446

    Default Re: "What Did Bill Monroe Invent?"-- from another forum

    There's no doubt in my mind that when Earl joined Bill Monroe,we had a band that vastly exceeded the sum of it's parts,possibly one of the greatest 'comings together' ever, in any musical genre,
    Yep!
    Jim Richmond

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •