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Thread: utility (or lack of) of ABC for learning tunes?

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    Registered User Mike Anderson's Avatar
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    Default utility (or lack of) of ABC for learning tunes?

    I recently downloaded a nice piece of freeware called ABCexplorer for playing ABC tunes. Back in the day I used to have some much more primitive program for the same purpose, and thought I'd see what's out there now.

    Pulled plenty of tunebooks off the web, as well as some individual songs I was after from places like The Session. All well and good, but - there are some weird things going on with the playback. Not bugs, I'm certain or I wouldn't mention it here, but stuff that might be inherent in the format. For example, even when set to loop, there is a pause at the beginning of each tune for some reason, so looping is never seamless.

    Additionally, and this must be the way the tunes are transcribed, you get a lot of things that seem out of rhythm, ornaments and such that seem very clumsily executed and probably should never have been transcribed in the first place if the ABC format isn't up to playing them back properly.

    Anyway enough rambling - does anyone here feel there is much benefit from trying to learn tunes this way? Wondering too, has anyone tried any of these session tune CDs, like the Foinn Seisiún sets? Any thoughts? Might be a good resource for someone like me who learns by ear...Thanks for any input on this!

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    Default Re: utility (or lack of) of ABC for learning tunes?

    I think the Foinn Seisiun sets are really a good tune learning resource, but I would make sure you have some kind of "slow-downer" software. Some of that stuff is pretty quick. There are books with the tunes for the Foinn stuff but the accuracy of the written vs. the recodings is variable. I wouldn't try to get tunes from midis.
    Steve

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    Registered User Mike Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: utility (or lack of) of ABC for learning tunes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve L View Post
    I think the Foinn Seisiun sets are really a good tune learning resource, but I would make sure you have some kind of "slow-downer" software. Some of that stuff is pretty quick. There are books with the tunes for the Foinn stuff but the accuracy of the written vs. the recodings is variable. I wouldn't try to get tunes from midis.
    Thanks Steve, sounds like good advice all around. I went and found the slowdown software thread that mentions BestPractice here at the Forum and have installed it. I was already getting so frustrated with the ABC format that I had pretty much made up my mind when I posted here I guess. I am hearing errors in some transcriptions too, ones that are obvious to me but I guess not to the person who transcribed. So rather than risk developing some really bad habits on tunes I haven't heard myself, I think I'll just let ABC go.

    Next step will be to download the Foinn Seisiun sets from CDbaby.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: utility (or lack of) of ABC for learning tunes?

    I would just learn the tunes from the notation taking into account that the transcription may not be accurate. OTOH I generally would just learn by ear as much as I can anyway. I don't know these Foinn Seisiun tunes but if they are played by real players that is much better than the midi files. That is like learning tunes from elevator music.
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    Default Re: utility (or lack of) of ABC for learning tunes?

    http://www.amazon.com/Foinn-Seisi%C3.../dp/B000QQZ6CA

    Here's the Amazon download page for the first volume of the Foinn Seisiun tunes.
    Steve

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: utility (or lack of) of ABC for learning tunes?

    Yeah, that sounds great. Forget about notation... learn the tunes by ear.
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    Default Re: utility (or lack of) of ABC for learning tunes?

    Not a huge fan of the ABC format, partly because I find it harder to read than normal staff notation, which I learned first. Ear is by far my preferred method for learning tunes, either in person phrase by phrase, or from a commercial recording, youtube video or session bootleg.

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    Registered User Mike Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: utility (or lack of) of ABC for learning tunes?

    Thanks people, you are confirming what I'm now thinking myself. And yeah Jim, the ABC playback sounds pretty awful really, very stiff and unnatural.

    Unfortunately Amazon doesn't allow MP3 downloads to Canadian customers, but CDbaby has all 3 volumes. Way pricier but it is what it is.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: utility (or lack of) of ABC for learning tunes?

    Unless you don't have access to commercial CDs there is plenty of great players out there to learn from and generally the tunes are prob clearer on those recordings. Check out iTunes and eMusic for other sources.

    ABC as far as I know was originally intended to be a simple small file method of transcribing notation and tho some folks can read it directly I use converting web sites or software. I usually go to concertina.net for single tunes or use Barfly for multiple tunes and read off the dots.
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    Default Re: utility (or lack of) of ABC for learning tunes?

    Back in 1990 there was very little available online for learning Irish tunes. So when abc came along, a technology that allowed transfer of tunes in a text format that made music that you could slow down and 'loop'. Well it was the best thing sinced sliced bread!
    The Fionn Session CD set now is the bench mark but that requires that you have software to slow down and loop the tunes.

    ABC still allows you to print the music in TAB as well as regular staff notation and you also have the benefit of knowing what key the tune is in as well as source information if it is in the file.

    As for the sound the program makes, I used ABCmuse and ABC2WIN and changed the sound to accordion. It was the most tolerable sound.

    I learned a lot about music and music notation with this program. And I learned to write in 'abc'. Hendrick Norbeck is the best author of Irish tunes and tune collections. At least I found really good settings and no mistakes from his collections. There are others for sure.

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    Default Re: utility (or lack of) of ABC for learning tunes?

    You don't need to have the slow down stuff for the Foinn collections but it makes life easier. People were learning tunes from Coleman 78s for decades and some of that stuff is blazing fast and you often have to ignore the backing.
    Steve

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    Registered User Mike Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: utility (or lack of) of ABC for learning tunes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve L View Post
    You don't need to have the slow down stuff for the Foinn collections but it makes life easier. People were learning tunes from Coleman 78s for decades and some of that stuff is blazing fast and you often have to ignore the backing.
    I hear ya - I've never used that kind of tool before, I have the good luck to be blessed with a good pair of ears, but I can sure see the value of it for fast stuff.

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    Default Re: utility (or lack of) of ABC for learning tunes?

    ABC notation has its uses. It is essentially an encoded form of staff notation and, as such can be easily converted into staff notation or tab. It's advantages as a format are 1. it takes up very little memory space; 2. files can be composed 'by hand' - no need for any encoding software; 3. if no conversion software is available, it is easy to read in its unconverted state. So, it is a convenient way to store tunes.

    I advocate learning by ear whenever possible - i.e. if someone can teach the tune to you, if you can get a recording of it or if you hear it played regularly. If these options are not open to you, I would err more on the side of learning from notation than trying to learn by ear from a midi playback device - a midi player has no sense of phrasing and (depending on the software and the speed of your computer) often has timing glitches, neither of which make it easy to pick up a tune correctly.

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    Registered User DougC's Avatar
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    Default Re: utility (or lack of) of ABC for learning tunes?

    Quote Originally Posted by whistler View Post
    I advocate learning by ear whenever possible - i.e. if someone can teach the tune to you, if you can get a recording of it or if you hear it played regularly. If these options are not open to you, I would err more on the side of learning from notation than trying to learn by ear from a midi playback device - a midi player has no sense of phrasing and (depending on the software and the speed of your computer) often has timing glitches, neither of which make it easy to pick up a tune correctly.
    It is my notion too that you learn by ear. However abcmuse had a really nice way of phrasing that was much better than the others. I note that the big expensive program Finale has a 'human playback' function. I wonder how that sounds. I have not tried it yet.
    Decipit exemplar vitiis imitabile

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    Registered User Mike Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: utility (or lack of) of ABC for learning tunes?

    Hi whistler, I understand what a really useful tool it must have been for anyone trying to seek out trad tune resources on the web, and I used it extensively myself back in the day. Now I have a pretty massive CD collection though and I think it's outlived its usefulness for me. There's a Sunday session I can attend too (right now afflicted with some pretty painful tennis elbow in my left arm, dammit - excessive computer use), and I'll be onto those Fionn Seisiun disks in the near future too, so I think I'm set.

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