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Thread: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

  1. #1
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    Default Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    Hi there,

    my name is Darren Hall and I recently bought this mandolin for my Wife.
    Photos of it are hosted here
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/medipre...7636864818075/

    i am trying to get it valued and also would appreciate any advice regarding its care and maintenance as the tuning pegs are quite stiff. Any recommendations regarding anyone who specialises in the care of antique mandolins would be gratefully received.

    My wife would dearly love to play this lady but she is terrified to do so. It has during its life been repaired but its previous owner, a good friend of mine had it taken to a violin maker who assures him that the repaired fracture would have been a surface fracture of the fragile tortoiseshell rather than completely through the neck.

    I have never despite trawling through the net found a mandolin anything like this. We have seen some scary valuations of lesser mandolins and need to know who could value and help in her care.

    Hope your expertise can help me

    regards

    Darren Hall
    halll007@gmail.com

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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by mediprez View Post
    ...I recently bought this mandolin for my Wife….I am trying to get it valued and also would appreciate any advice regarding its care and maintenance as the tuning pegs are quite stiff…My wife would dearly love to play this lady but she is terrified to do so…I have never despite trawling through the net found a mandolin anything like this….
    Here's a Calace with at least some similarities (headstock shape, etc.)

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    It's from this website.

    Tuning pegs can be lubricated, and may need to be adjusted. You can remove the cover plates on the back of the headstock to get at the gears.

    As to value, I'll leave that estimation, to Cafe members with more expertise on top Italian bowl-back makers. Don't be afraid to play it, however; that's what it was built for, after all.
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    Registered User loess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    Wow, that's a whole lotta shell! That's one of the more compelling bowlbacks that I've seen in my short history of taterbug fandom. Caring for the tuning machines and pegs isn't too difficult. For what it's worth, I had zero experience with it and was able to disassemble, de-grime, and reassemble the tuners on my first bowlback without much difficulty thanks to Frank Ford's guide to vintage tuner maintenance.

    Cafe bowlback crew will eventually chime in with some good Calace info, I'm sure (Mr. Garber, paging Mr. Garber...)
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    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    That is a beautiful Calace.

    There would have been a construction joint in the neck at that approximate location, where the headstock is connected to the neck proper. Often the veneer covering of the neck would hide this joint line. Not sure what the situation is here. I wouldn't expect that the neck would be veneered in tortoise shell....

    I'm not suggesting that there was actually a broken-neck repair, but it is hard to imagine that the veneer itself (whatever it is) would crack along that line. It would be wise to have a luthier experienced in working on Italian mandolins have a look.

    Our good friend, John Maddock, is a superb luthier and restorer of Italian mandolins. He is a bit south of you in Tavistock but would be on any short-list of folks to contact in the UK.

    Any evaluation would clearly be based on the confirmed condition of the neck. I'll toss a number out there and see who might respond-and up my ante. This is an early mandolin from the Fratelli Calace before the split apart. In stable, playable condition $4-4.5K. (I look forward to mo'better estimates from others.) They are mad about these Calaces in Japan so the value there might be higher.

    Mick
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    That looks to be in excellent condition and is an upper-end Calace. I also do not believe that the neck was repaired but that that seam you see on the neck veneer was part of the method of assembly. A violin maker would not know that unless they were familiar with old mandolins.

    The only thing i would worry about would be the shell on the fretboard. That is pretty unusual and I would worry about wear on that part and/or if you need to refret. If it is genuine shell I would think it would be pretty brittle. OTOH it might be celluloid but I would also think that would be pretty soft for a fretboard surface.

    I hesitate to give you any valuation on this. Are you looking to sell it or just for insurance purposes? You might contact a vintage instrument dealer like Tony Bingham in London who could possibly do an appraisal. There might be others closer to you. I know that some of the auction houses like Christies or Sotheby's do free valuation for possible sales. I know I have sent images and they gave an estimate of what it would sell in auction.
    Last edited by Jim Garber; Oct-23-2013 at 1:43pm.
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    I wouldn't expect that the neck would be veneered in tortoise shell....
    Why not? I have seen quite a few mandolins where that is the case. For instance, this basket case I inherited.

    Yes, the front of the board is unusual, if that is what you meant, Mick.

    I would also recommend consulting John Maddock for any repairs, if needed and to have it checked out overall. Tell your wife not to be terrified of this (or any other) mandolin. It is a musical instrument and deserves to make music.
    Last edited by Jim Garber; Oct-23-2013 at 2:04pm.
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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Why not?
    Why would I think that? Out of ignorance, I suppose. I assumed these were probably some faux finish on veneer. I've never held one in my hands that had real tortoise shell neck covering, but given the craft on display, why not?

    This mandolin looks like it has rarely been out of its case.

    Mick
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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    Yeah, that is too smooth to be a fracture. It looks like a joint or volute. Feature, not a bug.
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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    Yeah, that is too smooth to be a fracture. It looks like a joint or volute. Feature, not a bug.
    I guess the architect in me is going to have to live with this mando-definition of volute. Jim has already worn me down on the issue

    Volute.

    The Gibson 'scroll' would more likely be called a volute. No matter, this neck joint conical protuberance, though not particularly expressed on this Calace-- but as seen on certain Martins as well as others, for instance--has entered the useful lexicon along with 'reptile dentistry', 'random hippie sanding', etc. The meaning is clear if not the origination.

    I'd still get someone to check the neck out. That case hardly looks like it's even been out of the house. Where did you get this thing, Darren?

    Mick
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    I think the term "volute" has been borrowed from architecture and then changed over time. Check out this site.

    The Volute

    A small raised section of wood can often be found at the back of the neck in the angle formed between the headstock and the neck. This is often called a ‘volute’ and it is supposedly included to strengthen the junction between the head and neck, although it’s also a nice decorative feature. It either takes the form of a simple raised lip or it may be a pyramid or dart shape. Modern guitars with solid necks made to the old style often have dart volutes. These mimic the design of guitars made in the 1800s, notably by the C.F. Martin Guitar company. All early Martin guitars had jointed headstocks, with the headstock attached by a complex joint that is a modified form of ‘bridle joint’. In this joint the end of the neck is carved into a square point or wedge and the headstock has a matching socket. In addition, the back of the neck has a finger of wood, carved into the dart shape, which meets with the back surface of the headstock. This is such a tricky piece of joinery that Martin abandoned it in the 1920’s, but they continued to carve a dart volute on the back of many of their necks as a sort of tribute to the earlier necks. Since then other makers have copied the dart volute whenever they want to add some 'vintage' style to an instrument.

    Note – The term ‘volute’, although commonly used to describe the carved fillet at the back of the guitars neck, is degraded, since the word means ‘a flat spiral’ and when applied to musical instruments was probably originally used to describe the scroll at the top of the pegheads used for instruments of the violin family.
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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    Mick, I am a bit like you when it comes to hearing or reading the word volute. Having had a hand in building several stair cases I think of this Click image for larger version. 

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    when I come across the word.
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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    I'd be very careful with the tuning machines, until they are sorted out. The last thing you want to do is to crack a button or break some part made of pure unobtanium. The second thing is to beware that you do not use a string gauge that is too heavy; that would require too much tension to be placed on the neck/body joint. Once you get the gears operating properly and find the appropriate strings, proper positioning of the bridge will complete the returning of the instrument to playable shape. (Pardon me if you either already know all this, and/or have dealt with it already).

    The final caveat (for the moment, at least) is to beware of crossing national borders with an instrument containing animal products such as tortoiseshell, which can cause problems due to the CITES treaty. These problems can reach the extent of confiscation and ultimate destruction, so I'm given to understand. Your instrument is doubtless "grandfathered" into legal status by virtue of its age, but proper documentation by unimpeachable authorities might be worthwhile. And needless to say (as most of my advice tends to be, alas) save anything that might fall off the instrument, for proper replacement by someone knowledgeable.

    That is a wonderful instrument, within a remarkable case. I don't believe I've ever seen one of such quality from such an early period. A joy to behold, and hopefully a joy to play. See that it gets a proper setup and it should be fine for another generation or so. And yes, certainly, see that it is played. It deserves no less.

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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    Thank you so much for your advice and very kind comments.

    The previous owner bought this mandolin on his working travels as a younger man whilst in Italy or one of the Med islands I believe. He was my neighbour and i used to shoot with him. He showed me the mandolin years ago and I was so struck by its beauty. He explained that he intended to pass it on to grandchildren and quite rightly so. Many years passed, I got married and in chance conversation we saw the mandolin again and in subsequent conversations he offered it to me for £500. I had no idea about its origin or history only that my Wife and myself loved it.

    On further research on the internet it became apparent that it was unusual and possibly quite valuable to the point that my Wife felt she couldn't pick her up due to a combination of the stiff pegs and ??? fractured neck risking further damage to this special instrument.

    My wish is to keep this and have my Wife play it for pleasure. She is only a novice but she enjoys making music and I love to listen as she does. She was inspired by Captain Corelli of course. For an instrument to live I believe that it should be held as it was meant to be held and allowed to speak and sing.

    I am going to contact John Maddock to ask if he would be interested in examining the Calace and giving her some tender loving care. If he agrees and when i have the funds it should make for a lovely day out as Devon is a lovely part of the world. Mr Garber, if you have any contacts that could place a valuation based on photos I would be grateful as I can then get it insured. If a physical examination is required prior to valuation then I will contact Mr Bingham of London.

    I am not a rich man. I am a UK Paramedic who has been very very lucky to chance upon and be a small part of this mandolins long history. However I am more lucky to have met my Wife and I hope that my gift to her has the chance to bring more music to our lives.

    thank you so very much


    Darren

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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    Wow .... Ihave no real use for a bowl back mandolin. But pics of instruments in the class of the one in this article make me want to own one just for it's beauties sake.... WOW... R/
    I love hanging out with mandolin nerds . . . . . Thanks peeps ...

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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Snyder View Post
    Mick, I am a bit like you when it comes to hearing or reading the word volute. Having had a hand in building several stair cases I think of this Click image for larger version. 

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    when I come across the word.
    That's what I know, Bill. (Nice woodworking, btw, amigo.)

    This from Jim's "cite" (as in citation)

    Note – The term ‘volute’, although commonly used to describe the carved fillet at the back of the guitars neck, is degraded, since the word means ‘a flat spiral’ and when applied to musical instruments was probably originally used to describe the scroll at the top of the pegheads used for instruments of the violin family.

    Not sure if it has actually changed meaning. It just being used inappropriately by enough people for it (to sort of) make sense to them. Jim keeps hammering me on this one, but I'll keep pushing back. I've had that joint detail on a few mandolins. It's not a volute.

    Our language is full of such malapropisms these days and some of them can be pretty amusing. Who am I to blow against the wind?

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    It is certainly very odd that that term would apply to the bump at the back of the neck of an instrument. The violin scroll does make sense. Probably someone heard talk about volute and it got misinterpreted. The prime definition is spiral architecturally and when applied to gastropod shells.

    In my limited experience of the above fields -- and I defer to Dr. Kennedy here -- I have only heard of it applied to fretted instruments. I agree that it is used inappropriately, but it is being used at least in our insular vintage instrument community. What else should we call that.

    A bit of searching and I found this post on a thread on Acoustic Guitar Forum by the maker Howard Klepper:

    'Volute' is a misnomer which unfortunately seems to have stuck.

    A volute is a spiral curve. Its early use was with regard to the scrolls on the top of Greek architectural columns. The original referent in musical instruments is the scroll on a violin family headstock. At the bottom end of the violin headstock the volute transitions into a handstop. This kind of handstop is common on banjo necks. Taken by itself apart from the scroll, it is not a volute, and was not called that on banjos.

    The first time I heard 'volute' used to refer to a raised area at the bottom rear of the headstock on a guitar was when Gibson started making their necks with a kind of crude lump in that location about 1970 (which did nothing to keep the headstocks from breaking off along the short grain runout line). Some advertising writer for Gibson apparently thought this sounded tres chic.

    Until this misuse caught on, we used to call the thing on the back of a Martin headstock (entirely different in its functional origin) the 'dart' or 'diamond.'
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    Very interesting... it never occurred to me that this was the wrong term all along. Thanks Mick, for sticking to your guns.

    As another poster on that thread notes: Martin uses the term on their guitar descriptions.
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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by UsuallyPickin View Post
    Wow .... Ihave no real use for a bowl back mandolin. But pics of instruments in the class of the one in this article make me want to own one just for it's beauties sake.... WOW... R/
    They are three dimensional works of art. And you can play 'em!!
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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    Five hundred quid? I don't think I'm too far out on a limb in saying it's worth five times that much, but don't tell your wife or she'll have another reason to be scared of playing it.
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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    I love that tailpiece, and the inlay on the fretboard. Actually, I love it all, but that stuff stood out to me.
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    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    A very fine looking instrument wonderfully preserved, richly yet tastefully appointed. In addition, as a bonus, you've got a decent case which is also well preserved, which is quite a rarity in itself.
    I also thing a trip to a mandolin restorer would be worthwhile, in order to have a checkup, setup and servicing of the mandolin, such as tuning machine inspection/cleaning/lubrication, provision of quality low gauge strings etc.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Calace Mandolin 1892 help needed

    I recently got an old Italian bowlback off Ebay, mainly for parts for another project. But looking at this Calace it is similar to mine in enough of the details--though mine is a much less fancy piece--to make me wonder if mine might be from that same shop, or else a close imitator. The headstock shape is similar (the dimple at the top is a bit deeper) though veneered with rosewood instead of shell. The back of the neck is also veneered with rosewood, with a similar joint at the bottom of the headstock. The tailpiece has a similar silver mute-plate, though this one is lyre-shaped with string cutouts rather than a solid eggplant. What do you call these plates, anybody? It isn't of one piece with the string attachments, but it has a little bent extension that slips between the middle two of the four string posts on the tailpiece section that sits on the end-block. There is no label. I will try and post some pictures if I can figure out how...

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