Bernie
____
Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.
No, you haven't, I agree. But the discussion has centred on who invented bluegrass in recent posts rather than how is the mandolin used in bluegrass. While that discussion may have some relevance to the OP's question, it has diverted attention away from how it could be or is used in various contexts and sub-genres.
Bernie
____
Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.
OK, one hundred posts in and not one of all the esteemed folks have left out the simple fact the Bill Monroe decided to call his band "The Bluegrass Boys". It is said that he chose the name to honor his home state of Kentucky. It was not to define a genre of music but his way of identifying where he was. The definition of the genre simply developed over the years. Good night America, France, the UK and any other interested or disinterested parties, nationalities, principalities or powers. Go make some music and stop whining
Timothy F. Lewis
"If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett
He could have called it Apple Cobbler after his mother's favorite dessert -- what difference would it make? The issue is not why or what he named the music whatever he did --that is irrelevant.
The relevant point is that fact that he created the genre in the first place, and he played the mandolin as well, so his views on the role of the mandolin in the music (whatever it is called) are noteworthy and important.
Your suggestion to stop posting and start picking is a good one.
Bernie
____
Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.
I think we are on the same page Bernie, I like the apple cobbler idea which is as valid as any other. My point was more along the line of the innovators rarely have the foresight to understand that they have started a genre. How does anyone know that what they started will last for more than fifteen minutes of fame? (Thank you, Andy Warhol)
And to be honest, he played in a band, not a genre. All's fair, still friendly. Time to pick!
Timothy F. Lewis
"If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett
Thanks O.S. and I bet that Anthony Weiner thang was tough on ya for a few weeks... ;- )
The question is not who "invented" Bluegrass but rather whether anyone did. I think it's much more accurate to state that Monroe led the band that inspired the genre. There was of course no way to predict that it would, and that was certainly not Monroe's idea. In the beginning he wasn't the least bit flattered by imitators and changed labels when the Stanley Brothers were signed to Columbia. And, more crucial to the OP's question, Monroe's music, and his use of the mandolin, changed over the years, well into
the 50's.
Ralph, I don't think there is a definitive answer on whether Bill Munroe invented bluegrass or not. He was inspirational in getting interest going in a new genre of music. Can we assume that he along with other contemporaries started a new style of music? Ok from that point can we discuss the role of the mandolin in bluegrass music? How is it used in waltzes,fiddle tunes, and songs in bluegrass.
Blindbard if I assume correctly is looking for more information from the folks how the mandolin is played to create certain kinds of dynamics and effects in the bluegrass band context. It is a good question that has not been answered in full yet.
Nic Gellie
NG, his name is Monroe, not Munroe and to say "he along with other contemporaries started a new style of music" is preposterous. Mr. Monroe was the originator of Bluegrass; others quickly followed. To say otherwise is totally incorrect.
At the risk of riling the Monroe faithful, to credit Bill Monroe with being single handedly responsible for what we know as Bluegrass today is simply incorrect. The truth is his sound was foundering until he lucked up and hired one Lester Flatt. Flatt talked him into hiring Earl Scruggs and that is when it all came together around Christmas 1945. Earl Scruggs was the one who put the fire and drive in Bluegrass. IMHO Earl Scruggs should get as much or more credit as the "Father of Bluegrass" than Monroe.
"The Truth" according to you. When you have done the necessary documentary investigative WORK, then publish a paper, adequately foot-noted and referenced. Then I'll read it Sir, and weigh your dissertation against the wealth of work established already by respected musicologists.
Let's not be so quick to state "The Truth", when it's really an opinion!
1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed
"Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
"If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
"I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
"Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel
This directly from Lance LeRoy, not me......
"Lance LeRoy, bluegrass enthusiast, band manager and well-respected Lester Flatt biographer, gave his opinion of bluegrass at its best, “Looking back on it all, I think it would require someone with extreme tunnel vision to dispute the viewpoint that bluegrass music was first introduced to the world there around Christmas of 1945 when Earl first appeared on the Grand Ole Opry with Bill and the Blue Grass Boys. I don’t buy this ‘bluegrass as we know it today’ cop-out. I regard it as being the first time bluegrass music was introduced to the world...PERIOD! It took Earl’s three-finger roll on the five-string banjo to supply the music’s single most distinguishing characteristic. The four other parts were already here; he added the fifth one that is absolutely essential if you are going to have bluegrass music. The sound of the banjo played with a three-finger roll has always symbolized ‘bluegrass’ to both fans and the general public as well. I doubt that any other of the instruments even come close.
“Now I’m certainly not suggesting that Earl created bluegrass music,” continued LeRoy, “but then again neither did any other one individual. Bill Monroe was the band leader and, as a Grand Ole Opry member, provided the forum. Whether through fate, blind luck or whatever, he assembled what I think is the first and the best group ever to play bluegrass. Nobody has been able to improve on it since. For all this, he richly deserves to be called the ‘Father of Bluegrass Music’. It’s one of those honorary titles that befits the role he played in that band. Bill Monroe has been symbolic of bluegrass music throughout the world for a long, long time. In reality, though, bluegrass had a number of fathers.”
Didn't Bill Murray invent bluegrass?
No sir, but i do believe he invented a bluegrass hybrid,
Carl Spackler: This is a hybrid. This is a cross, ah, of Bluegrass, Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent, and Northern California Sensemilia. The amazing stuff about this is, that you can play 36 holes on it in the afternoon, take it home and just get stoned to the bejeezus-belt that night on this stuff.
No OS, "Lance LeRoy, bluegrass enthusiast, band manager and well-respected Lester Flatt biographer.." Says otherwise and has no vested interest in it except for the fact that he is well respected despite being a band "manager" (band joke there) and did a biography on a Lester. That leaves Bill out for sure...
Hey, M. Marmot, did you get my e-mail?
Yes sir, i did - expect a reply later this evening.
Just to keep things on track here - how about folks post some good videos to demonstrate the sound of the mandolin in bluegrass for the O.P.?
Last edited by M.Marmot; Sep-26-2013 at 10:44am. Reason: keeping it on topic-ish
OK,
So I am to hold the OPINION of Lance LeRoy as equal in weight to Lomax, The Conways of UNC Chapel Hill, Rintzler, Rosenberg, Cantwell, and other musicologists.
Sorry, but I don't hold opinions on equal footing with well-respected academic research...you can blow smoke on that in your reality all you want to...this is a fool's errand!
I'm out!
1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed
"Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
"If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
"I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
"Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel
Actually, that's not quite the truth. It wasn't Lester Flatt who talked Monroe into hiring Earl Scruggs. Flatt was actually opposed to having another banjo player as he felt the previous one ("Stringbean" aka Dave Akeman) had hampered the band's sound. He quickly changed his mind after hearing Earl. According to fiddler Jim Shumate, it was he who facilitated the audition with Earl.
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