Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Right Hand Technique

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    606

    Default Right Hand Technique

    Recently I decided to try a Thile tune called Hop the Fence and what I discovered was how poor my right hand technique is. It's been said over and over how important the right hand is and a tune like this will expose all my weaknesses. So I'm looking for help and advice on what works. I've watched John Reischman, for example, but his style is somewhat personal. Then there's Mike Marshall, Joe K Walsh, and so many of the Mandolin Monday players. What most of these players have in common is a closed hand, some tighter than others. I keep working that method but have found it hard to learn. I'm not sure how much pick tip to expose between fingers, how loose to allow my wrist to be, and how much, if any, lower arm movement to allow. I'd like to hear how others have solved these issues.

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    1,140

    Default Re: Right Hand Technique

    There are so many aspects to right hand technique, and I feel like I'm always working on all of them. Playing with a closed fist has become automatic for me, but one ongoing challenge is to try and hold the pick as loosely as possible. Looseness of the pick hold seems to lead to less tension in the arm and wrist, which leads to smoother picking. I've also migrated towards having half or more of the pick sticking out. I used to grip the pick with my thumb pretty near the center of the pick and only the point exposed, but I find I can get more finesse and wrist action if I shift my hold to expose more pick. Kinda hard to explain, but like you I noticed that the players whose technique I admire have a loose hold with a lot of pick exposed.

    One other change I'm working on is experimenting with a pointier pick. I've used rounded picks for a decade (BC 60 TAD-3R being the main one), but I see players whose tone I like using pointier ones. I'm currently working with an EML large triangle (PEEK - essentially the same size and shape as a BC CT55), and I'm finding that by angling it more across the strings (like so, but not so extreme - =\=) I can get a tone that I like, and also get good volume with less effort.
    Mitch Russell

  3. The following members say thank you to onassis for this post:


  4. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Kernersville, NC
    Posts
    2,593
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: Right Hand Technique

    Quote Originally Posted by dorenac View Post
    I'm not sure how much pick tip to expose between fingers, how loose to allow my wrist to be, and how much, if any, lower arm movement to allow. I'd like to hear how others have solved these issues.
    For me, the slow climb toward faster playing has dictated what my right hand needs. At slower tempos I can play pretty well with about any configuration.

    As I increase speed above 100 I need less tip, more support under the pick. Curling my index finger back to support the pick more on the upstroke causes my hand to close more. Also my forearm takes over where my thumb and index finger used to help out the pick stroke.

    Efficiency is the key imo. Practice being efficient on the upstroke as well as the downstroke and it may help you feel your way to a more optimum technique

  5. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    606

    Default Re: Right Hand Technique

    Well the pick I am using, and really like, have settled on, is the BC CT55 with no bevel. So there's a good point, and I like the tone (slightly warmer) with a round bevel rather than a speed bevel. Speed isn't priority here, I'm striving for accuracy and tone mostly. This Hop the Fence, for me, is a good skill building exercise if played in 2nd position. I don't know if I'll ever get it to flow smoothly, it's difficult for me to "find the strings" sometimes when working with it. By that I mean there are aspects of cross-picking to it as well as tricky up/down stroke picking and my right hand almost gets tangled up sometimes. I vacillate between a loose grip and tight grip. As I recall somewhere Thile recommended a loose grip on this particular tune. And for that matter I believe Mike Marshall is a proponent of loose grip also.

  6. #5
    Registered User KGreene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    164

    Default Re: Right Hand Technique

    I'd really like to hear more ideas for improvement regarding right hand as well. I'm fairly comfortable with almost any song that may come up in a jam, even taking breaks on songs I don't really know (once I've heard the melody and progression)...But I often find myself lacking the finesse and playing it somewhat like a guitar (for lack of a better example) during these unfamiliar tunes.

    dorenac ... what part of Va are you in?
    2014 Gibson 'Harvey' F5G
    1917 Gibson F2
    2013 'The' Loar LM600VS
    2013 Morgan Monroe 4FJ
    Blue Chip Picks
    The Scallywag Social Club

  7. #6
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Manchester - Lancashire - NW England
    Posts
    14,187

    Default Re: Right Hand Technique

    The finest explanation of 'how to do it correctly',means nothing unless you practice !. So,cut out the explanation bit,& just 'practice' until ''you get it right for you''. Like many others on here,i'm 100% self-taught, & that's how we did it. Others ''coming down the pike'' will do the same.

    When i kicked off,i could hardly hold a pick !. It took weeks to get to the point where me & the pick were in the same place for more than 5 minutes at a time. I got there !!.

    Even with the almost supernatural talent of Chris Thile - i'd like a £/$ for every hour he's put into his practicing. Despite having a few good teachers - he did all the work.

    Also - don't take what others do as 'Gospel' - it ain't. What works for others might not work for you,so try 'what others do' - & if it doesn't work for you,do it your way,
    Ivan
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

  8. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Ivan Kelsall For This Useful Post:


  9. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,258

    Default Re: Right Hand Technique

    Quote Originally Posted by dorenac View Post
    Mike Marshall is a proponent of loose grip also.
    To get a flowing, easy and pleasant-sounding picking technique, a loose pick grip is key, to the point of almost falling out of your hand.

  10. #8

    Default Re: Right Hand Technique

    If you can play three consecutive stings in a row, constantly alternating down/up, you can do about anything with a pick. Be relaxed and swing wide.

    D A E D A E D A E D A E, etc

    This pattern is good too, again, always down/up:
    A A E A A E A A E A A E, etc

    Andy

  11. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Andy Hatfield For This Useful Post:


  12. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    606

    Default Re: Right Hand Technique

    As a subscriber to Peghead Nation(NFI)--Joe K Walsh's lessons--I went back to re-listen to his comments about the right hand. His metaphor for the right hand "fist" is to pretend to be holding dice. Not a tight, but relaxed slightly open fist. And then place the pick between the index finger and thumb loosely.

    Ivan I've been playing mandolin for going on 30 years and still question my right hand. Maybe I'm just an extremely slow learner. It seems though that more than 50% of the "good" players close their right hand to some degree or another. Without question the big key is still PRACTICE ---no argument.

  13. #10
    Registered User Drew Egerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Statesville, NC
    Posts
    1,184

    Default Re: Right Hand Technique

    I am a big fan of Mike Marshall's Finger Busters book available at Elderly. The open string exercises are awesome for right hand work no matter what your playing level!
    Drew
    2020 Northfield 4th Gen F5
    2022 Northfield NFS-F5E
    2019 Northfield Flat Top Octave
    2021 Gold Tone Mando Cello
    https://www.instagram.com/pilotdrew85

  14. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    124

    Default Re: Right Hand Technique

    I've been playing for a little over 2 years. I have the closed hand thing down okay, but literally nothing else is right about my right hand. I hold the pick way too tight, and double stops and tremolo just don't flow. As a result, I tend to avoid them.

    Then there is the whole left hand thing, which I'm not so great at either. But that is another thread.

    I appreciate you bringing this up, and I appreciate all the people who gave advice. There are probably a bunch of us out here who can use it.

  15. #12

    Default Re: Right Hand Technique


  16. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Oak Park, IL
    Posts
    291

    Default Re: Right Hand Technique

    One Sunday morning I woke up early and snuck down to the basement to practice. Had to play really quietly to keep from waking anyone up. At a certain point I realized I was playing with a very relaxed right hand, with a loose grip on the pick, and with more precision than usual. Now I try to mimic that while bringing up the volume. Try playing really quietly and see if that helps.

  17. The following members say thank you to Mark Miller for this post:

    Grimm 

  18. #14
    Registered User peterleyenaar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Kimberley B.C. Canada
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: Right Hand Technique

    Right-Hand Technique : If the right hand doesn't work, the left hand don't matter.

  19. #15

    Default Re: Right Hand Technique

    I have been playing for two years or so. My biggest problem - by no means the only one - is that my right nails, especially the index, touch the strings below the ones I'm playing. Is my hand not parallel enough to the plane of the strings? My pinky often dragging on the pick guard would indicate so. Please help!

  20. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    402

    Default Re: Right Hand Technique

    One of the best analysis I’ve seen of the right hand that was very useful for me was Radim Zenkl’s mandolin primer video. I was trying to build up my speed. He breaks down the various techniques of when to use more of an up/down motion of the wrist and when to use more of a rotation of the wrist (for speed). He covers holding the pick, and how to brace (or not brace) your hand at various speeds.

    What’s more, he talks about the pros and cons of every technique in an effort to get you to find which techniques will work for you.

    He covers several other aspects of right hand too. Highly recommended.

  21. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bill Foss For This Useful Post:


  22. #17

    Default Re: Right Hand Technique

    I remember reading a tread somewhere about this. Someone had asked Jethro Burns some questions: 1) when's the best time to practice A: morning 2) which is more important R hand or L hand A: right

    That really got my attention. I'm pretty sure that everyone starts off with 95% attention to the left hand, just trying to get the fingers squarely on the right string at the right fret, whether chords or breaks. So it's logical that the RH technique suffers. At some point, during the learning progression, the emphasis starts to encompass the RH more and more. I do believe that as the skills improve to a higher level, the RH becomes more and more important and eventually, as Jethro tells us the RH is the driving force . . . tone, volume, timing, touch, feeling, etc, etc. You just can't get there until the LH is competent enough to allow the player to recognize this and really start to develop the RH skills.

    I love watching all the great players, young and old. For me, watching Mr. Grisman illustrates brilliantly what the RH is capable of doing. His RH is clearly off the instrument completely. Which I think leads to the most freedom and fluidity and the ability to play at different areas of the strings to achieve the desired tone, etc. I think ideally the only part touching the instrument would be the under part of the forearm touching the edge of the side. Of course, it's ultimately up to each player to find what works best for them.

  23. #18
    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,466

    Default Re: Right Hand Technique

    I tell my students that the right hand is the money hand. Left hand is fine, and important. But if those fancy licks aren't articulated properly in volume and rhythm they're no good. It goes down to finding the right position for each player, holding properly the right pick, putting your hand in the right spot on the strings, moving the wrist in a fluid motion, and striking the string with the right pronunciation, etc.
    JBovier ELS; Epiphone MM-50 VN; Epiphone MM-40L; Gretsch New Yorker G9310; Washburn M1SDLB;

    Fender Nashville Deluxe Telecaster; Squier Modified Vintage Cabronita Telecaster; Gretsch 5420T; Fender Tim Armstrong Hellcat: Washburn Banjo B9; Ibanez RB 5string; Ibanez RB 4 string bass

    Pedalboard for ELS: Morley Cry baby Miniwah - Tuner - EHX Soul Food Overdrive - EHX Memory Toy analog Delay
    Fender Blues Jr Tweed; Fender Greta;

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •