Which Mandolin fits/compares to your Ability ??

[CES]

Alan, to your point, I've always liked Marty Stuart's comment that he had a Loar, but he just didn't like it as much as his carved up Warner, so he sold it and went back to his 500 dollar mandolin...

Of course, his Warner is awesome and not equatable to, say, a KM 500, but I like the gist of it. Play what you like, and play it as well as you can!

[yankees1]

Alan, to your point, I've always liked Marty Stuart's comment that he had a Loar, but he just didn't like it as much as his carved up Warner, so he sold it and went back to his 500 dollar mandolin...

Of course, his Warner is awesome and not equatable to, say, a KM 500, but I like the gist of it. Play what you like, and play it as well as you can!

Great advice !!!!!! Wish I could follow it !

[Alex Orr]

For all the romance we imbue them with, instruments are just a product. Products sell for prices. The products we can buy are generally based on what we can afford at a given time. Ability has nothing to do with it...in the end your wallet is the only thing that truly decides what instrument fits you. In an ideal world, this would perhaps not be the case, but as it stands, your skill level has no bearing on what kind of instrument you deserve. If you're a billionaire, and have never touched a mandolin but want to learn to play bluegrass mandolin, there is really no reason your starter instrument shouldn't be an original Loar, Gilchrist, or Dudenbostel.

[JeffD]

I will never be able to play well enough to deserve the instruments I play. And may it always be so.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Alex Orr - "....there is really no reason your starter instrument shouldn't be an original Loar, Gilchrist, or Dudenbostel."

In many ways,that makes a great deal of sense. I was told by a very competent Classical Violinist many years ago,that the 'best' instrument to learn on is 'the best'. With a high quality instrument,you get ease of playing / tone / & a great sens of satisfaction & pleasure in playing - those factors alone drive most of us to play even more. I never made so much progress & so quickly,as when i got my first 'real' banjo - my Stelling 'Bellflower'. When i played it,i couldn't put it down. So for any player who's 'really' aiming to reach the heights in their playing - buy as good as you can - every time !!. If i'd known that i would eventually become a fairly competent player,maybe i'd have bought an Ellis F5 straight off ?,
Ivan

[Bob A]

I was told by a multiple-award-winning violin maker that less experienced players tended to select for instruments that were similar to the ones they had been playeng, because they were more easily able to access the instrument's potential, out of familiarity. Once they had the opportunity to work with a substantially better violin for a sufficient length of time, they came to appreciate the superior qualities that they had no idea how to access ab initio.

For myself, a selection of reasonable quality and reasonably divergent instruments works best. A L&H style A, a 1921 F4, a Unicorn F5 and an A2Z are different enough to keep me stimulated, and each is capable of surprising me with the unique sounds and tones I can produce, most of which are reasonably pleasant. I don't need anything better for what I do with them, and acquiring them over a 40 year period spread the costs to an affordable level.

I will say, emphatically, that you cannot go wrong buying a better instrument than you can afford. Most dealers will permit layaway purchases, so long as instant gratification can be staved off. Better instruments present the player with greater dimensions to explore, and draw the player into the exploration. Then too, they are more easily disposed of if the player finds them unsuitable, for whatever reason. (By "better" I'm excluding "best," as it's not too easy to sell or trade a Loar, for example, but all my choices above would be more readily marketed.)

[stevedenver]

I apologize if ive missed the point. I dont need to be handsome to dress well, and god knows there are many in lovely autos that dont drive well, etc., ad nauseum.

I play daily, hours, with others, and regardless of where i may be in ability, my mandos are my chosen tool. I love their feel and sound. Compared to the big pros, i deserve a ukulele. (No dis to uke lovers).

Compared to decent amateurs, semi pros, im about right, im told. No virtuoso, but competant, i believe.

I never feel sheepish about my mandos at a jam. I get audience applause for some of my solos, but i presume theyre being generous.

I love music, and playing, and beautiful instruments. I work hard. So, i give these consideration in my assessment of "what do you merit". Like much in life, its about wherewithal, nothing more or less.

There will always be better, worse, meaner, nicer, better singers, composers etc. thats life, and it isnt fair. Sierra and ricky play MM's.

i play an 02 fern, '08 PML Brent, rigel a, and id guess im about right. Thats after about nine years of practice and lessons and playing. YMMV.

[Richard58]

Myself I just play one a friend of mine made. I'm quite happy with it and it's punchy sound that carries well for playing local places and musician get togethers.

[Dale Ludewig]

As a builder, I encourage everyone to buy as much hand-built mandolin as they can afford. Maybe even a little more.

[Jeff Hildreth]

I have owned about 50 mandolins over the years.

I have made a few mandolins but not professionally.

As a non builder, but as a player.. I encourage anyone/everyone to buy the mandolin they like and can afford.


I have also owned over 125 cars and trucks to include a 1953 Porsche bent window, a Fairthorpe Electron (Coventry Climax), Rover 3500 V8, 1960 TVR Grantura, 5 Land Rovers, 11 Volvos, 11 VWs, 6 MGs one a Bonneville Prepped Factory race car, one a 1946 MGTC all out racer with a pedigree ,and currently a 1964 B...a full on 1961 SAAB D Sedan race car ( I later streeterized it and enjoyed blowing off Porsches), 1974 Mercedes-Benz 450 SL, etc etc. I buy what like and what I can afford.
You don't have to be a professional driver or race car driver to own and enjoy a car.

All mandolins fit my, and your, ability to buy and to play.

[Drew Streip]

With no offense, I think there's a fair bit of contradiction in this thread. When people come here asking for advice about a beginner mandolin, everybody is quick to point to Eastman 305, Kentucky 250, The Loar, et. al.

Never in my time reading the Cafe have I seen somebody recommend a Gilchrist, or even a used Collings MT, as a "first" mandolin for somebody who's just learning.

So we clearly have some agreement about buying mandolins according to skill level, and we recommend incremental improvements -- yet now this idea is controversial?

PS: I'm all about buying a "better" instrument than your current skill level dictates, as long as it doesn't bankrupt you or damage your significant other's trust. And I'll be looking at hand-built for my next step.

PPS: There's another thread going on about Chris Thile right now where many stated "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should" or "Don't we need some boundaries??" Well -- I guess I tend to agree on the subject of purchasing mandolins.

[JEStanek]

I concur with Dale. If independent builders (or even manufacturing scale ones) had you prove you could play up to their instruments, they would all go hungry. I was lucky enough to hold and strum a Loar signed mandolin once. I sounded the same as I do on the instruments I own. I have had two custom built instruments, and one I have kept, the other moved along to fund other needs in my life. I don't regret those purchases. I'm very happy with the relationships I made with both builders. In some cases a mandolin is just another widget you can buy and dispose of. In others, they are an artistic expression of the builder and the player.

I am not a competent player. That's not where my goals lie at the moment. But having my mandolins gives me joy to look at them and they give me something inside when I play (however well or poorly). I won't begrudge anyone their purchases. But, as my signature says, appreciating what you have is a key to happiness as well, at least for me.

Jamie

[Jess L.]

... I was lucky enough to hold and strum a Loar signed mandolin once. ...

Me too...

... I sounded the same as I do on the instruments I own. ...

Yeah! Same here! Funny how that works!

... I won't begrudge anyone their purchases. ...

Me neither, as long as they're not looking down their nose in a condescending manner at people who have 'lesser' instruments... I don't see much usefulness or practicality in having one's 'identity' or feeling of 'self' tied to mere material possessions - such objects can be stripped away in an instant - hurricanes, tsunamis (fancy modern word, we used to call them tidal waves), earthquakes, fire, theft, whatever.

... appreciating what you have is a key to happiness ...

Absolutely. Agree with that 100 percent.

The "grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" thing gets tiresome after a while, chasing some ideal which might not even actually exist.

[Sterling]

I always try to purchase an instrument better than my capabilities. That way I can’t blame the instrument for my lack of ability.

[yankees1]

I always try to purchase an instrument better than my capabilities. That way I can’t blame the instrument for my lack of ability.

I posted the same earlier and I totally agree with you !

[John Lloyd]

I'd like a mandolin that encourages me to work at making myself worthy of it.

[Tobin]

In no way did I imply that you should play a lessor instrument until you improve ! Sorry if I didn't communicate that clearer ! I own an Ellis F5 and A5 and my level of playing in no way compares to many players who play Eastman's and other less expensive mandolins. I believe in having great instruments and when I don't sound very good ( which is quite often ) I can't blame the instrument ! I just thought it would be an interesting thread to start to see what instruments every one would identify with ! More of a humorous joke type of thread ! Sorry if it came across otherwise ! I thought this just might be a FUN thread to start and something different from, " What's the best mandolin", "Anyone Heard of BC picks" and "What's the best strings"

Hey, no need to apologize to me! I knew your intent was just good old fashioned discussion. Despite my choice of wording and my bulldog's grumpy face in my avatar, I wasn't upset.

But the reason I replied the way I did is because there is a very real phenomenon out there in mando-land that should probably cause us all to do some soul-searching. We pre-judge people based on the instrument they play. Despite the fact that mandolin pickers (and amateur folk musicians in general) are about as non-judgmental a group as you'll find these days, there still is a lot of "sizing up" that happens when someone pull out their instrument and people look to see what it is. I guess my only point was that we should make an effort to disconnect the name on the peghead from someone's skill level, financial status, or any perceptions thereof.

And while having a discussion about what instrument brand (or value range) we associate with our skill level sounds like a harmless bit of fun, it does sort of play into the whole judgy-judgy mentality. If we are making that association with our own playing, we're doing it with others too. Again, I'm not offended or upset - it's just something I offer as a point to consider.

With no offense, I think there's a fair bit of contradiction in this thread. When people come here asking for advice about a beginner mandolin, everybody is quick to point to Eastman 305, Kentucky 250, The Loar, et. al.

Never in my time reading the Cafe have I seen somebody recommend a Gilchrist, or even a used Collings MT, as a "first" mandolin for somebody who's just learning.

So we clearly have some agreement about buying mandolins according to skill level, and we recommend incremental improvements -- yet now this idea is controversial?

The reason most people recommend lower-end mandolins to rank beginners is because they usually pose their question as "what's the best beginner mandolin under $400?" or similar price points. That pretty well limits the range. But on that subject, I do make a distinction between absolute beginners and seasoned players. A beginner hasn't yet reached the point where they know that the mandolin is right for them. Suggesting a high-end instrument would be foolish unless they just really didn't care about money at all, and were willing to buy the best mandolin money could buy to start. But most beginners are not like that. They want to wade cautiously into the water, and recommending a budget-friendly instrument seems the right thing.

But when they've gotten through the newbie stage and they're ready to upgrade, that's where I think we do more harm than good by trying to box people into price points versus skill levels. If affordability is not a limiting factor, I'd always recommend that the person pick the best mandolin they can. And to hell with thinking "I shouldn't buy that model because I'm not a good enough player to deserve it." Just my opinion, though! I just hate to see people allowing some phony perception of a skill-level caste system to hold them back from owning better instruments. We all deserve the best.

[Ronnie.]

I truly believe "Good Instruments" inspire me to get better.
Best/R

[JEStanek]

If someone is going to snub you based solely on the instrument you can afford to play, they are likely bad people and their opinion shouldn't matter to you. For the record, of all of the musicians (players, performers, famous or not) I have met, I've not had one look down their nose at an instrument I had in hand (whether it was an all laminate Johnson A4 style) or either of my custom builds. I have had them express a preference for one over another but there wasn't a negative judgement about the one they preferred less.

Jamie

[CES]

Tobin, regarding the “sizing up,” I had a friend who played tennis in college. He had 1 racket that he used almost exclusively and 1 backup that was the same as his primary, but he carried 5 or 6 rackets, a couple with the plastic still on them. When he was playing tournaments not affiliated with school, he always wore matching clothes and shoes from the same brand. He would have been happy playing in whatever, but learned early on that his competitors assumed he must be great since he had so many rackets and matching clothes, possibly indicating that he had a sponsorship deal. It was purely psychological warfare to give him even the slightest of edge.

My fear is exactly the opposite...I’m worried that people will see me pull out a nicer mandolin and then be disappointed when I can’t play it like CT

[Jill McAuley]

When I started playing guitar and drums as a kid I was the only girl in our locality doing so. On the receiving end of much sneering and dismissiveness from the lads in school, which drove me to a) learn to play better than all of them and b) scrimp and save to have a decent guitar and drum kit so that they couldn't sneer at the quality of my gear. Playing the nicest (second hand of course) gear I could get me hands on definitely helped make me a better player (and probably counted as a bit of psychological warfare too!), but it also ruined me for entry level instruments for life - I blame the lads from my school for cursing me to a lifetime of empty bank accounts but a house full of instruments! Oh, and working class kid here I might add, no parental support or trust funds to fuel my obsession.

[Bertram Henze]

I am still trying to catch up with the level of my Fylde OM, but every time I take one step forward the instrument takes two. It's a losing battle.

[Mike Scott]

I certainly play no where near the level that my Silverangel deserves. I’ve only had it for a bit less than a year and by all accounts it is all the mandolin I will ever need. I take it to jams and am almost embarrassed to be playing such a nice instrument when others with lesser mandos are playing way better than I. I am sure they wonder what the hack is doing with the SA-lol. Oh well I love the SA and will just keep plugging along..........

[bratsche]

I am still trying to catch up with the level of my Fylde OM, but every time I take one step forward the instrument takes two. It's a losing battle.

Wow! Sounds like you have an incredible instrument there!

I have no idea what the "level" of any of my instruments is...

When I play one of them for a bit, and then tell it, "okay, now it's your turn"... it just sits there, mute. Every single time.

bratsche

[Jeff Hildreth]

To add,

I have owned some pricey mandolins that I had custom ordered or ordered from dealers.. and.. they were dogs. Some were from famous makers.

One of my all time favorite mandolins was a near mint 1915 Gibson .. quite common but what an extraordinary ,mandolin. I miss it.
I do not miss the profit I made after one year of ownership.. I paid $25 with original case and bought from the original owner.

Another was a 2 pointer Washburn I got from Chet Atkins.. owned and custom made for Jethro Burns. $600.

Another was a Dec 22 Snake-head in superb condition. Wonderful mandolin.. from the original owner $400 with original case.

Be patient and you will find something that suits you .

All of these were superior to a custom A from a now revered maker. That instrument was , at best, a basement hobby job in progress priced as if it was a hand crafted jewel, and I waited 6 months for that one. Returned the day I got it. It cost me about $125 not to own an instrument full of mechanical and cosmetic flaws. Price and fame is not an indicator of quality or playability.

Speaking of playability.. may I have some wider nuts please ? Then I'll consider your instrument.

PS ... I usually sold instruments in a fit of poverty. otherwise I would have a room full of instruments.