Women with Mandolins

**JEStanek** · Jan-15-2008, 10:44am

Yes. We do music in our house. #I'm often (look at the number of posts) on the Café. #I like to show her how women can be successful in various professions. #She sees the women and we look at it together, listen to samples on linked pages. #While I may want her to have a more secure profession than that of a pro musician I sure don't want her to see her gender as a limiting factor in the decision, at least not when she's 7. Or that her gender and #appearance makes her more of an object and less of a contributing member of her profession (regardless of how the world may see some women).

Frankly, I would rather my daughter read some of the posts here than spend time on Disney.com with all of the ads. #We like looking at the Mandolins in progress thread alot. #She's so sweet she promises to buy me mandolins all the time. #

She's (and her younger brother) been going to Philly Folk Fest since she was an infant with her volunteer parents. #She's been parked at the Sunday early AM jams since she was in the stroller. #We play name the artist with tunes in the car, name the instrument with tunes in the car. #Music and making your own is a great way to beat loneliness in this isolating world. #I want her to be surronded by it and never remember not having an instrument available to her to play with or on. #

For the record, I don't have any problem with acts using sex appeal to draw audiences, I don't see any point in not acknowleding that some acts use that to their benefit. I don't see the point in reacting to it on a forum that has a wide audience like this...

Descending from soap box...

Jamie

**mandolooter** · Jan-15-2008, 11:10am

[QUOTE] I don't see the point in reacting to it on a forum that has a wide audience like this...

Just for the record if it didn't have/draw a reaction it wouldn't be used....thats life....here and everywhere else. I've seen nothing here that is even remotely close to the mindless dribble on TV everyday...or the radio...or a stroll thru the mall...we are quite the tame group actually.

**JeffD** · Jan-15-2008, 2:52pm

Originally Posted by (mandolooter @ Jan. 15 2008, 11:10)

we are quite the tame group actually.

Yes, and that is one reason this place is so successful.

**mandolooter** · Jan-15-2008, 3:15pm

I agree totally, I've all but left the less moderated groups Im a member of cuz I don't have the time or will power to shift thru it all looking for valid posts or the funny gems that sometimes appear.

**billkilpatrick** · Jan-15-2008, 5:12pm

don't know how long this will stay put but in an effort to tout her epiphone mandolin, a lady named "redheadedcontroller" from alabama is posing in her underware on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/EPIPHON....8052852

**f5loar** · Jan-15-2008, 5:37pm

That should peak interest in that mandolin. Check out the power drill she is also selling.

**mandopete** · Jan-15-2008, 5:43pm

What a great gimmick, why didn't I think of that?

Oh, that's right....

**Kevin K** · Jan-15-2008, 5:49pm

Hmm, a mandolin, a power drill, and a lady in her underwear

**jefflester** · Jan-15-2008, 6:14pm

She must be tiny, the mando looks huge compared to her.

There was an Ebay ad back in September with a woman holding a Fender FM-52E with even skimpier undergarments that we talked about in the "More ebay emandos" thread. But the link was self-edited.

**rhetoric** · Jan-15-2008, 10:03pm

Originally Posted by (JEStanek @ Jan. 15 2008, 10:44)

Yes. We do music in our house. #I'm often (look at the number of posts) on the Café. #I like to show her how women can be successful in various professions. #She sees the women and we look at it together, listen to samples on linked pages. #While I may want her to have a more secure profession than that of a pro musician I sure don't want her to see her gender as a limiting factor in the decision, at least not when she's 7. Or that her gender and #appearance makes her more of an object and less of a contributing member of her profession (regardless of how the world may see some women).

Frankly, I would rather my daughter read some of the posts here than spend time on Disney.com with all of the ads. #We like looking at the Mandolins in progress thread alot. #She's so sweet she promises to buy me mandolins all the time. #

She's (and her younger brother) been going to Philly Folk Fest since she was an infant with her volunteer parents. #She's been parked at the Sunday early AM jams since she was in the stroller. #We play name the artist with tunes in the car, name the instrument with tunes in the car. #Music and making your own is a great way to beat loneliness in this isolating world. #I want her to be surronded by it and never remember not having an instrument available to her to play with or on. #

For the record, I don't have any problem with acts using sex appeal to draw audiences, I don't see any point in not acknowleding that some acts use that to their benefit. I don't see the point in reacting to it on a forum that has a wide audience like this...

Descending from soap box...

Jamie

---------------------------------------------
I don't think you can have it both ways. #You don't get to affirm the use of sex appeal on the one hand, and then act surprised when people react to it on the other. #

And say all you want about her technique, but when you wear your underwear on stage and look like she does, it's not really about the music.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

**Don Christy** · Jan-15-2008, 10:20pm

Jamie,
I applaud your effort to encourage your daughter and to share the cafe with her.

And not to pile on, but I have to agree with Rhetoric. You're trying to have it both ways.

Here you say you don't want to see gender as a limiting factor:

Originally Posted by

... I sure don't want her to see her gender as a limiting factor in the decision, at least not when she's 7. Or that her gender and #appearance makes her more of an object and less of a contributing member of her profession (regardless of how the world may see some women).

Jamie

and here you say they should charge more because the woman is scantily clad.

Originally Posted by

They ought to charge more to get in. #

Jamie

#
Anyway you look at it though, that young lady can pick. Check out the video.

I'm hoping they tour broadly this year behind the new release so that I get a chance to see them. Looks like a talented group.

Don #

**JEStanek** · Jan-15-2008, 10:48pm

My bad on the earlier comment. I wasn't clear... The joke in charging more to get in is so she could afford a dress over the slip. I'll take my lumps and my medicine for not being so clear. Really, I don't care if you dress like Wendy O'Williams on stage I just recognize we have a wider audience here.

I was more put off by the comments re: and not drooling over the 16 year old... perhaps I'm reading too much into it. I try and post in this thread as if my wife/mom were reading over my shoulder and admittedly I fail from time to time, clearly.

So you guys are right, and I am wrong... but I'll stick by my assertion that I will try and behave as described above. This is practically one of the safest places on the net.

Jamie

**oldwave maker** · Jan-15-2008, 11:26pm

3 generations of mandolinistas at the recent oldwave holler womens mandolin summit, not sure how Eric got in there without his wig and miniskirt. Jeannie with her OW F4 copy was nominated for western music association instrumentalist of the year last year. Shoopie and her sis will probly shoot me for posting this pic. JC will be 16 soon. I must be weird, I only drool over well figured tonewoods.....

**otterly2k** · Jan-16-2008, 12:42am

Personally, I just think it's a shame that we are so accustomed to the use of women's scantily clad bodies sell stuff. (and usually the stuff being sold profits someone else far more than the scantily clad woman). I also think that it's a shame that women are taken less seriously in many fields (including music) such that they need to (or feel they need to) use their bodies to attract attention to their very real skills.

Her playing speaks for itself. She could be wearing a burlap sack and combat boots and her playing would still be terrific... and equally deserving of the same attention. There is a double standard... men are more likely to be taken seriously for their skills without having to resort to showing off chiseled pecs and abs. Think about how many great male musicians would be missing from the music world if only the ones with "hot" bodies and pretty faces had been given a shot. Think about how many great women musicians are currently missing.

I'm not really sure that most men fully understand what it is like to live as a woman in a culture that so often judges women first and foremost on the degree to which we conform to near impossible standards of beauty... and then only after that pays attention (maybe) to our talent and intelligence and character. Frankly, it stinks.

Most of the conversations on the Cafe are relatively free of this dynamic, and it is a welcome respite to be a part of a community where women mandolin enthusiasts can be on equal ground (if not in equal numbers) with men mandolin enthusiasts. I'm just sorry to see it sneak in on the occasions when it does. It seems so unnecessary.

just my opinion...and no personal attack on anyone is intended here.

**jasona** · Jan-16-2008, 1:01am

Well put Karen. I'm frankly surprised that so little has crept into this thread so far--a testament to the fine folks that play mandolins.

Then again, it was a striking little black dress. I certainly couldn't pull it off.

**ned armando** · Jan-16-2008, 4:47am

this is a creepy topic anyway....i mean, does it really matter if a player is a woman or a man??? why dont you guys post a "fat, balding, old guys with mandolins" section instead....

**Tim** · Jan-16-2008, 7:10am

Originally Posted by (ned armando @ Jan. 16 2008, 04:47)

this is a creepy topic anyway....i mean, does it really matter if a player is a woman or a man??? why dont you guys post a "fat, balding, old guys with mandolins" section instead....

There is no arbitrary/subjective level of attractiveness to post in this thread. #There are threads (or have been) on "cats in mandolin cases" and the "post a picture of yourself" has some fat, balding old men.

**mandopete** · Jan-16-2008, 9:28am

Originally Posted by (ned armando @ Jan. 16 2008, 02:47)

why dont you guys post a "fat, balding, old guys with mandolins" section instead....

That would have to be over in the Bluegrass section.

**otterly2k** · Jan-16-2008, 9:41am

Originally Posted by

why dont you guys post a "fat, balding, old guys with mandolins" section instead....

Plenty of that around here already! #

And nothing wrong with it either... heck, some of my best friends are FBOGWM's !!

and FWIW, I don't find it creepy at all to have a Women with Mandolins thread - we are such a minority that having a little corner where we can be noticed and acknowledged, for the most part, a very positive thing. Can't speak for all women here, but to me it is a way of not being rendered invisible, as if we don't exist or matter. To me, it comes down to how the thread/topic is treated.

**David Newton** · Jan-16-2008, 10:31am

I don't know why I feel the need to chime in on this topic, but ignorance has never stopped me before.
There is no way, as a male, I can understand why a woman who obviously has spent a great deal of effort to play like that, would then see the need to dress like that to get an audience.
I understand that she will get a greater audience, that fact is as old as the hills, but...
I could babble all day.
I hope, and I think this will happen, she'll hang in there and enter the mainstream wearing jeans and a top.
Thanks to all you guys and gals here that keep the Mandolin Cafe on a higher plain.

**markishandsome** · Jan-16-2008, 10:48am

I don't know how many of you have ever been to Nashville, but these are probably the most conservatively dressed young women you'd be likely to see at night in the bars!

Originally Posted by

And say all you want about her technique, but when you wear your underwear on stage and look like she does, it's not really about the music.

Ridiculous. They're performers putting on a show, of course it's about more than just "the music". If you want music, buy their CD. People go to live music shows to be entertained.

Do you really mean to say that an attractive female can't be considered a "real" musician?

**mandolooter** · Jan-16-2008, 10:54am

[QUOTE]this is a creepy topic anyway....i mean, does it really matter if a player is a woman or a man??? why dont you guys post a "fat, balding, old guys with mandolins" section instead....

We'd run low on bandwidth fast and the thread would be too huge to navigate, but if ya still feel the need I could start one off with a picture of me.

**markishandsome** · Jan-16-2008, 10:57am

Originally Posted by

There is no way, as a male, I can understand why a woman who obviously has spent a great deal of effort to play like that, would then see the need to dress like that to get an audience.

They may have put the dresses on for their own enjoyment. I know if I had spent a great deal of effort to maintain a body like that, I'd show it off every chance I got. Plus, it's fun to wear something besides jeans and a t shirt sometimes. Last time I went to see the symphony they were all wearing tuxedos, but I don't think it was to draw an audience. I sometimes wear a cowboy hat just because it looks cool, not to keep the sun out of my eyes. My mandolin has a big goofy curlicue on one side that doesn't do much for my technique.