Terrible singer in the band

[Spruce]

That'll probably happen anyway...(g).

[mandocrustacean]

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I think I will approach our guitar player and then see what he thinks since it was his idea to recruit her. I highly doubt that he has a "special relationship" with her because his wife plays bass. The banjo player definitely does not have a relationship with her.
We will be playing out a lot this summer and we've got our instrumental stuff down really well. This could open us up to some good paying gigs. There is a big picking party this spring and all the bands take turns on stage. My fear is that having her sing will blow any chances for us to network with other bands too. I'll approach this as tactfully as I can and post back as to how it went.
Thanks again for the suggestions.

[jim simpson]

I really like this thread! (my 2nd contribution) A group I once played with was booked at a little festival in Central PA. There was a group that featured a female lead singer who was unbelievably bad. I believe she was/is married to the mandolin player. They probably had the best look of all the bands in terms of their clothing and they were fine instrumentally. They even had cd's to sell! I found one of their cd's in a sale bin and bought it for a laugh. It is funny and painful to listen to. She sings an Allison Kraus song that produced the biggest belly laugh! They continue to gig and now have 3 or 4 cd's out. I can't for the life of me understand how they continue to get work when I know how she sounds.
I am not naming them as I feel it would be a bit mean spirited on this forum.
Peace - Jim

[Bugs]

Maybe take a caring approach and suggest vocal lessons. #Lets face it, it was your guy who invited her and encouraged her to join the group in the first place.

[straight-a]

I would talk to the other band members and get a concensus. If the majority agrees, talk to her. There's not a pain free way to go about something like this but it can be done gently and in a caring manner. I would like to be a singer myself but I'm not. I can carry a tune just fine, but I have terrible vocal quality so I stick to what I am good at. We all need to realize this at some point. Good luck with the situation.

[Ken Sager]

Time's a wastin...

Life is too short to spend it worrying and fretting about a crappy vocalist in your band. Say something to the whole group. Get it out in the open. Air out the laundry and set it all straight. Pick yer cliche and stick to it.

You aren't doing yourself or the band any good by not at least talking about, if not resolving, this issue that has the potential to push you out of the band.

Have fun with it, either way it goes.

Seriously,
Ken

[Crowder]

Be like the guys in Spinal Tap and tell her you're going in a "new direction".

Or, tell everyone you know who plays in a band how great a singer she is, "when she's not nervous". Some other band will audition her, and, assuming she was just nervous that night, take her off your hands. This is called the "Maverick Method"

[Bob Sayers]

In the "if you think you've got a problem" department: This link reminds me of a humorous story I heard a few years ago from a blues afficianado, here transposed to a bluegrass context. (BTW: I apologize if the punch line offends anyone.) Bob

A famous bluegrass artist woke up in the middle of the night to the sound of someone stumbling around in his bedroom. "Who's there!?!," he inquired.

"It's just me, Buzz Busby," came the reply.

"Buzz, that can't be you. You're dead!"

"Well, yeah, but I got a little bored up in heaven and came back to see some of my old pals."

"Wow!", exclaimed the first man. "What's it like up there?"

"Well, it's been pretty good. I'm playing some with Don and Red. And Duffy and I go out for drinks every once in awhile. And, of course, Bill and Lester and Carter and Chubby and the gang are always playing up a storm."

"Wow!!!", the first man exclaimed a second time. "But you said it's just 'pretty good.' What's the problem?"

"Well, I hate to bring it up, but God's been dating some chick who thinks she can sing..."

Just treat the singer and band with dignity and honesty...don't "play games". If you feel some lessons might help suggest that otherwise share your thoughts fairly. Good luck.

[mandopete]

Thanks for all the great suggestions. #I think I will approach our guitar player and then see what he thinks since it was his idea to recruit her. #

Hey, keep us posted. I, for one, would like to hear how this turns out.

[mrbook]

How do you tell anyone they can't sing or play? Once, the rest of the band ran out after practice, leaving me to tell the last guy that we didn't let him sing more because of complaints from the audience (he asked, I didn't volunteer, by the way). He quit shortly thereafter, and hasn't spoken to me in six years. We played in his home town recently, and I had one of the other guys call and invite him to join us for a song. He came, wouldn't talk to me, and it turns out he gave up playing music (he could play, but not sing). I felt even worse, but we were a better band.
We had a dobro player who could sing better than any of us (when he remembered the words), but couldn't play in tune worth beans. Also thought he could take breaks on songs he had never heard before. He was a good guy, and we gave him four years to improve. The audience liked him, too, and seemed to overlook the out-of-tune playing, but maybe they hadn't heard a dobro before. Finally, he started coming to gigs but not to practice, and again I had to be the one to tell him it wouldn't work (I guess I'm the leader). Painful again, but we were a better band afterwards.
Then we had a bass player who yelled at people - profanity and all. There were times when you didn't want to be standing next to him. One day he stopped showing up. He decided he needed a break, and I agreed, hoping we would find a replacement before he wanted to come back, and we did - with a week to spare.
Now we have four guys that get along, plus a fifth as a fill-in or additional member. I subscribe to the Bill Monroe method of never firing anyone, but it sometimes takes awhile for things to work out. If the audience doesn't like something, they will let you know, or just not come to see you, and you will figure it out and take action. Otherwise, we always enjoyed playing the music, and that got us through the times when things were not as good as we would have liked. We also had some interesting experiences and stories. It all works out, I believe, but not always quickly - or quickly enough.

[mandopoet]

I've learned a lot about sparing feelings from the advice that has been given. #Nicely done on all the responses, group.

Now, what I want to know is this off-key gal a looker? #'Cause if she is, you may want to keep her for props. #You know, a pretty lady, who can bring tears to a glass eye, will usually do wonders for a band's stage appeal. #Just train her to lip-sync to some other nightingale's voice. #

[mandocrustacean]

Not real purty either.

[mandopete]

I subscribe to the Bill Monroe method of never firing anyone, but it sometimes takes awhile for things to work out.

?

[mandopete]

Now, what I want to know is this off-key gal a looker? #

PUL-LEASE!

Give us a break!

[John Flynn]

mandopete:

I support your negative reaction to the question about whether she is a "looker," although personally I took the question as facetious and got a laugh out of it. I do think there is an ironic point to be made from it. I have to 'fess up and admit that despite myself, I had the same question creep into my head reading this thread. I think it is human nature. Also, if you look at who gets to make CDs now in bluegrass, it is undeniable that right or wrong, for female lead singers, looks are a huge consideration. Intellectually I think it is wrong and I wish it weren't so, but it is. I also have to admit that while Rhonda Vincent sings fine, I'd rather watch her than listen to her.

[LeftCoastMark]

Good looking or not, teach her to dance....everyone loves watching a dancer.

[mandopoet]

Now, what I want to know is this off-key gal a looker? #

PUL-LEASE!

Give us a break!

mandopete,

I didn't mean for anyone to take my post seriously. Johnny got the "jest" of my intentions. Just trying to lighten the subject a little bit, that's all.

[mandocrustacean]

I think I'm just resigning myself to the situation. #We'll see if the Bill Monroe method works. #This lady seems to really get a lot out of singing in a band whether she's good at it or not. #I'm really getting a lot our of the band too. #Maybe I'm being too critical and judgemental. #
Here's a little more background on her: #She grew up with our guitar player and his wife (who plays bass). #They're all in their early 40's. #The lady we're speaking of was injured in a car accident several years ago and received a big settlement (hasn't really worked since). #Her older husband works for an oil drilling company and makes good money but he's gone a lot. #He and she just built a nice big house too. #Now you may be wondering what relevence this may have but just keep reading.
Tonight at practice she wanted to play "Lyin' Eyes" by the Eagles. #We worked on it and she sang of course. #Anyway, read the following lyrics and tell me if I'm reading anything into the situation. #Those of you who have followed this thread may have some insights.

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/eagles/lyineyes.html

[Flowerpot]

I've been following this thread, but I gotta say you lost me here. Unless you're saying she needs an outlet, or a place with some emotional support, and you feel sorry for her so you don't want to deny her the chance to be in the limelight. But I'm glad you've resolved things in your mind... although this turned out to be anti-climactic after all the schenarios folks brought up. I was ready for some drama! Oh well, if you're enjoying it, great for you. Good luck.

[crawdad]

A simple word of caution and perhaps wisdom. Every musician I worked with because I felt "sorry" for them just ended up using me as long as it was a free ride. When the ride was over, they never attempted to maintain contact. Somehow, I am still friends with most of the good ones. Go figure.

I'm not even sure what the above means, but I guess the moral is that true friendship is built upon exchange, and that means receiving as well as giving.

Once I was in a band with a female vocalist. She got sick and we hired two replacements. The band wanted to fire the regular female vocalist. I held firm and said no. Why? Because I felt sorry for her. She needed the work and her dad had just passed away. Because of me, the band kept her. Well, down the line, due to economics, we decided to go back to being a four piece. She was only working a couple nights a week with us anyway by then. When she left, I was the bad guy. She never even knew I had fought for her so hard and she never forgave me. This is what feeling sorry for someone will do for you. Be very careful with that, I say.

[AmosMoses]

For those of you advocating letting her hear herself on tape, be advised that there are many, many people out there whol can't tell the difference between good singing and bad singing, even if it's themselves.


Just listen to the American Idol rejects who think they are so great.(some not all)

[Bill James]

She grew up with our guitar player and his wife (who plays bass). #They're all in their early 40's. #The lady we're speaking of was injured in a car accident several years ago and received a big settlement (hasn't really worked since). #Her older husband works for an oil drilling company and makes good money but he's gone a lot. #He and she just built a nice big house too.

I don't know what to do about keeping/firing her but I think we can turn that into a country song and make millions!

Well the band kicked me out cause I couldn't sing or play.
And I tore up my car the other day.
My old mans always gone oil drillin'
But I got a young buck that's always willin'.
My car may be a wreck, but I got a big ol' check.

Nashville here we come!

[Pete Martin]

A couple of Portland OR oldtime players wrote a song called "They Kicked Me Out of the Band" a bunch of years back. One of the funniest songs I've ever heard. Anyone heard about this one?

[Garrett]

No but Bob Black -- banjo player with the Perfect Strangers and ex-Bluegrass Boy -- has a hysterical song called something like "Canned by the Best".