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Thread: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

  1. #26

    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    As has been mentioned above, your issue comes down to one, or all, of these issues:

    1] bridge intonation
    2] nut and/or bridge too high
    3] too much neck relief

    For some reason people want to setup mandolins so the strings are quite far off the fretboard. When this happens, because of the shortness of scale, as you fret the string you are changing it's length by stretching it to make up for the added distance caused by excessive relief and/or string height which causes the string to go out of tune.
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  2. #27
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    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    Sound Farmer,

    I buy D'addario strings over the internet. I think they are all imports... not sure. I'll try your test.

    -Peter

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    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    Thanks Andrew,

    The humidity could be a factor, since during the summer here it is extremely humid and the winters are quite dry as it gets very cold.

    However, the problem did exist when I received the instrument. It just took me a while to get to understand the instrument well enough to realize that I wasn't imagining the problem.

    -Peter

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    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    Jesserules,

    Yes - I have tried that. However doing so can only get the one chord to stay in tune. I usually try to get it close and play away. The problem is notice-able when playing musical lines (as opposed to chords) but only when I am playing alone, and then not very much so. With a group, the intonation inconsistencies of the all the instruments mask the problem pretty well. I will be playing it on stage tonight with a friend of mine who doesn't exactly know how to keep his guitar in tune... so a ball park intonation is fine in that situation.

  5. #30
    Luthier&Pickup maker ret. Soundfarmer Pete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    Wouldn`t have thought the Mandobird would suffer from neck relief or humidity problems.....no adjustable truss rod, just a reinforcing bar...OK, there are probably exceptions but every mandobird I`ve come across has had an absolutely flat fingerboard.

    Just as a matter of interest, are the bridge saddles at their lower limit?......every Mandobird and Eastwood Mandocaster clone I`ve come across needed the neck shimming (to angle the neck back) by roughly 1/32" to get a decent action.....

  6. #31

    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    My Epiphone Mando-Bird IV had horribly high action when i bought it. Pressing down on the strings too hard bent the notes out of tune. My local guitar shop guy was loathe to do any real work on the nut for fear of lowering the strings too much and running into someone named "Buzz".

    I tend to like the action set low enough that my strings are on the other side of the frets, so I was happy to stumble across an article by Will Ray who suggested shimming the neck socket with something thin like cereal box cardboard: take off the neck, trace the heel shape on the cardboard, cut out the shim and reassemble. It was easy to do, and seems to be a pretty good solution so far.

    (I apologize if this post derails your original thread as people debate the merits of various shim materials--Cheerios boxes for a "rounder" sound, Ex-Lax boxes to enable faster runs...)
    Last edited by jumppin james; Feb-21-2013 at 10:48am.

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  8. #32
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    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Soundfarmer Pete View Post
    Wouldn`t have thought the Mandobird would suffer from neck relief or humidity problems.....no adjustable truss rod, just a reinforcing bar...OK, there are probably exceptions but every mandobird I`ve come across has had an absolutely flat fingerboard.

    Just as a matter of interest, are the bridge saddles at their lower limit?......every Mandobird and Eastwood Mandocaster clone I`ve come across needed the neck shimming (to angle the neck back) by roughly 1/32" to get a decent action.....
    Most of this thread refers to the Mann 4-string I play most of the time. I emailed you about the MB (That was you right?) but I can't actually play that instrument. It is completely useless for making music. Epiphone is really a disgrace!

  9. #33
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wupeide View Post
    ...It is completely useless for making music. Epiphone is really a disgrace!
    Sorry to hear that. I got a Mandobird VIII and replaced the bridge with one from Moongazer, replaced the pickup with one of Pete's, and made a new bone nut. It plays and sounds real good. The action and neck are much nicer than some of my "good" instruments. I did not find it necessary to shim the neck. Mine was built in Indonesia, according to the sticker that came on it.

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  11. #34
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    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    I may have to back off a bit from previous statements regarding MandoBird intonation, to the extent that if modified correctly they may indeed be fine or at least more than serviceable instruments. Since I have little experience with these sorts of modifications, I am a bit leery to venture there. And I do think instruments should be built to where such modifications aren't necessary; indeed, they should already be incorporated into the construction. That is, I would like to think a product from respected manufacturers like Gibson or Epiphone would be playable right out of the box, pretty much. And of course, since I have been playing their products for nigh unto 45 years, I want to believe they make quality instruments. So if indeed even these modifications are all it takes to get my MandoBirds into good working order, I may have to take another run at them. I got frustrated and went with a custom-made instrument that I felt confident would be just fine as is. And it is. But having the MandoBirds as good working backups would indeed be nice.
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    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    Well - just a quick update. I was very happy to hear from Jon Mann this week. He responded to my last email and it looks like I'll be able to send the mandolin back to him - though honestly I hate to part with it for such a long time, even with it's faults. I get so much pleasure out of playing it!!!

    I may also send the Epiphone to Almuse. It seems strange to spend so much money to fix such a cheap instrument, but I am in a situation where it isn't possible to get playable instruments by going to a shop and buying a new one over the internet is always a big risk. I am also thinking of giving the Bovier line a try. There are still some new ones floating around out there. If I can just find somebody out there who has one to comment on it.

    Thanks everyone!

  13. #36
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wupeide View Post
    ...It seems strange to spend so much money to fix such a cheap instrument...
    The high $$$ is from shipping it around and possibly import fees where you are. My bridge was about $45 USD; the pickup ~$50 USD. The bone blank about $5. And of course jazzmando strings. So I spent about $120 on upgrades to a $200 instrument (did all the work myself). But, it rocks now and is a pleasure to play!

  14. #37
    Market Man Barry Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    The MB sure needs a different pickup. ask rob to email you his pdf book on setup. I sure learned a lot reading it
    http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ght=setup+book

  15. #38
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    Set neck builds are more difficult to deal with than bolt on neck builds.

    I got a Fender FM61 , neck was glued in on a good day, Spud, another owner of one in the county ,
    got one when the work being done was not so good, and it's just a non bargain to do a Neck reset.
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  16. #39
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    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    Hi All,

    Thanks for your suggestions! Based on some of the content of this thread, I came to realize two things.

    First, I am an idiot. When Jon Mann instructed me how to adjust the bridge I misunderstood him and loosened the allen screw in the bridge. This made an existing problem even worse. I should have been turning the screw to make it tighter, thereby pulling the bridge back, increasing the distance between the nut and the bridge and lowering the intonation of the fretted notes on that string.

    I realized this last week and finally stumbled upon my allen wrench yesterday. I loosened the strings and turned the screw a few times, re-tuned and BINGO - the G string is now in tune, almost perfect without any further adjustments.

    So, this problem is apparently solved and was really totally my fault.

    Now, as for the sharp notes on the A-string, I took a look at the picture here:

    http://www.earvana.com/

    I thought for a while, considered the implications, and then took a hacksaw to a chopstick. I was able to cut off a tiny flat piece of that chopstick that I could wedge under the A string against the nut, essentially extending the nut out onto the finger board a fraction of an inch. In this way I have lowered the intonation of the fretted notes on the lower section of the A string.

    For the first time since I received this instrument I am able to get it to play almost perfectly in tune and with a few more minor adjustments, it should be spot on.

    I am a VERY happy man, at last!!!!

    Now I just need to speak to violin guy here, and see if he can give me a permanent fixed solution to the extension of the nut. I am sure the soft wood of the chopstick won't last too long.

    I'll post a picture later tonight... (Your morning.)

    Thanks everyone!!!

  17. #40
    Registered User Tom Wright's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    Good news about the bridge, but if your A is still sharp enough on the low frets to need nut compensation it really needs the slot cut lower. I went the same route, with a flattened and filed piece of brass rod, inserted under the string at the nut. But I eventually got some nut files and some blanks and made a new nut with slots low enough to fix the intonation in the low frets. Nut compensation is only necessary when you want a higher nut, for open-string power. But getting it just right makes that unnecessary.
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  18. #41
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    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    Many thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. And thanks to Jon Mann for getting back in touch with me.

    The process of reading these posts and doing some minor experimenting on the Mann 4 string has (basically) resolved all my issues (with the exception of the first 2 or 3 frets on the G string still being just a few cents sharp - I will file down the nut a little with my hack saw one of these days, when I get up the nerve - but it's already very very close as is and chords should great)

    For the sake of others who may have similar issues with electric mandolins, I'll review my problems here and discuss how they were resolved.

    First off I just want to be clear that the primary problem wasn't with the instrument itself, but with my understanding of how to adjust it. The angle of the bridge when I received the instrument was apparently not ideal. In the end, correcting the intonation of the G string (which was fretting slightly sharp) by pivoting the bridge to make the length of the string slightly longer apparently also had an impact on the A string. So if you are having problems with intonation - try adjusting the bridge first. This is really easy to do with a fixed bridge (like the one Mann uses) I can imagine it would be a nightmare with a bridge that isn't attached to the instrument.

    The second issue apparently was the nut. In addition to adjusting the bridge, I have also filed down the grooves in the nut slightly (dangerous, I know) and the combination of these two steps has dramatically improved the intonation. I also tried improving intonation slightly by extending the nut out onto the finger board slightly with some tiny pieces of wood. This really sweetened up some chords, but as Tom mentioned above, after the nut was filed down a bit this was no longer necessary.

    The third problem which I really do need to mention for anyone else who may have the issue was string breakage. When I got the instrument I was breaking strings at least once a week. I tried a variety of techniques to solve the problem (chap stick, pencil graphite...) but nothing worked. A related issue, also caused by the nut, was that the strings were binding in the grooves and this not only caused string breakage but also made tuning difficult, since the strings' tension on either side of the nut was different and thus intonation would go sharp shortly after tuning as the tension slowly equalized.

    This last problem was resolved by a local violin maker. He claimed that the grooves in the nut were too narrow and too sharp. He cleared them out a bit and rounded off the edges of each groove. I have not had one string break since.

    Now that I have resolved these problems I am free to enjoy the tone of this lovely instrument. It is an absolute joy to play

    There are few other issues I may get to later, such as sustain and intonation when bending strings... but that's for another day.

    Thanks again everyone. Happy picking!

    Peter

  19. #42
    Oscar Stern s11141827's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    The Electric Mandolin is easier to intonate than an Acoustic Mandolin because most of them have individual Saddles for each string that are adjustable by a screw (this is true for Electric Guitar being easier to intonate than an Acoustic Guitar). I wanted to swap the original bridge w/ a Tune-O-Matic version that allows me to adjust the strings more easily, & actually it's made out of a very light weight metal alloy so that it transmits the vibrations of the strings onto the soundboard.

  20. #43
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    Godin A8 had a bolt on neck , that made action adjustments easy.
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  21. #44
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Mandolin Adjustments - HELP!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wupeide View Post
    Mandroid,
    I'd ship anywhere.
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    look at the front page there are builder links to write & ask those doing the work

    I'm just a spectator (I got Steve Ryder to work on my 5 string He is in Maine

    Portland fretworks did re fret jobs on a couple acoustics they're in Oregon..
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