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Thread: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

  1. #1

    Default Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    Anyone have any opinions on this mandolin? Although the tail piece says Pat. Oct 86, when was this mandolin likely made?

    I have to admit I'm not a mandolin player so it's difficult to really access it's play-ability. Compared to some other ones I've come across this one plays much better and certainly looks better with the pearl work. I've seen this guy's museum piece and it's breathtaking but realize he also ran a company mass producing these things. Is this an inbetweener?
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  2. #2
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    The Mugwumps Index of American Fretted Musical Instrument Makers lists Angelo Mannello as building in NYCity 1886-1906. The index gives no other information, but that narrows the period down somewhat. Another website lists Mannello's lifespan as 1858-1922. A PDF reprint of a 1903 Music Trade Review gives an ad for Mannello's shop at 676-680 Eagle Avenue in New York.

    There's a Mannello mandolin displayed here with the identical pickguard and binding, but without the mother-of-pearl fretboard. Slightly different headstock. I'd agree with your assessment that yours is probably one of his higher-end instruments. How many ribs or staves in the bowl-back? And is it rosewood? Rosewood and more ribs are generally also indicators of an upscale instrument.

    The Mannello at the Metropolitan Museum of Art is an extreme example of a "presentation grade" instrument, almost totally encrusted with mother-of-pearl, and probably designed for display rather than actual use. According to the caption, it was donated to MMA by the Mannello family in 1972.

    Google searching yields quite a few hits on Mannello mandolins, when you consider they were apparently made 110-130 years ago, so we can deduce that he was quite a prolific luthier; the fact that his shop took up three addresses on Eagle Avenue also suggests it may have been fairly large-scale. I wouldn't necessarily use the term "mass production," as the shop might have had a half-dozen or dozen craftspersons building instruments by hand, but apparently a well-known member of the contingent of Italian builders in New York, who turned out many bowl-backs around the turn of the 20th century.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    Thanks Allen,

    Yes I agree the one in the museum was probably an exposition or crafted to show the extent of his artistry.

    One site said he had up to 70 workers I think. I'd dare to say the arrival of immigrants made this need possible. I mean were mandolins very popular in the 19th century as much as they were turn of the century? I really don't know but it would seem likely they became more popular as other instruments took off like the banjo and ukulele. I'm not saying either one of those instruments is the same as a mandolin just that there was change in the air if you will musically. And you can see a short time later all the fancy f style mandolins. I suppose other crafts were the same as you see a decline over the years in fancy appointments.

    It does seem to be a functional instrument which I found amazing. I base that on others of the same era I've seen. It has 17 smaller ribs, and 19 with the 2 outer wide ones. I really don't know how to determine whether the back is rosewood or not. I do have some rosewood instruments and it is certain common enough. There's a good possibility it is definitely rosewood and perhaps Brazilian.

    Looking at some of my guitars with dot inlays I'm like wow, how plain. I've never seen an entire fretboard of pearl.
    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    The Mugwumps Index of American Fretted Musical Instrument Makers lists Angelo Mannello as building in NYCity 1886-1906. The index gives no other information, but that narrows the period down somewhat. Another website lists Mannello's lifespan as 1858-1922. A PDF reprint of a 1903 Music Trade Review gives an ad for Mannello's shop at 676-680 Eagle Avenue in New York.

    There's a Mannello mandolin displayed here with the identical pickguard and binding, but without the mother-of-pearl fretboard. Slightly different headstock. I'd agree with your assessment that yours is probably one of his higher-end instruments. How many ribs or staves in the bowl-back? And is it rosewood? Rosewood and more ribs are generally also indicators of an upscale instrument.

    The Mannello at the Metropolitan Museum of Art is an extreme example of a "presentation grade" instrument, almost totally encrusted with mother-of-pearl, and probably designed for display rather than actual use. According to the caption, it was donated to MMA by the Mannello family in 1972.

    Google searching yields quite a few hits on Mannello mandolins, when you consider they were apparently made 110-130 years ago, so we can deduce that he was quite a prolific luthier; the fact that his shop took up three addresses on Eagle Avenue also suggests it may have been fairly large-scale. I wouldn't necessarily use the term "mass production," as the shop might have had a half-dozen or dozen craftspersons building instruments by hand, but apparently a well-known member of the contingent of Italian builders in New York, who turned out many bowl-backs around the turn of the 20th century.

  4. #4
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    Mandolins were certainly very popular among the Italian immigrant community in New York, and there were quite a few builders there around the turn of the 20th century. Some of these luthiers, and their descendants such as John D'Angelico, are still rated among the top builders of American acoustic instruments. At first, they were building for a specific ethnic clientele, who were used to the type of mandolin manufactured in Italy or around the Mediterranean; later, they branched out into other types of instrument, such as arch-top guitars, carved mandolins, banjos etc.

    There certainly was an "explosion" of interest in acoustic stringed instruments a century ago, with mandolins, banjos, ukuleles, guitars etc. being manufactured in the US by the hundreds of thousands. In addition there was a proliferation of zither-like oddities, from which only the Autoharp survives. A few years later, resonator-based stringed instruments were invented and developed, and companies like National and Dobro made thousands of those. The early 20th century is by many considered to be the "Golden Age" of American stringed instrument manufacture.

    Mannello is more than a footnote to this history, if brief internet research is any indication. A mandolin with 17 ribs, in the general scheme of things, sounds mid-range; some of the top-line instruments had over 30, often "fluted" or scalloped, with white holly strips inlaid between them. But the mother-of-pearl fretboard does indicate a higher-grade instrument. If it's playable and good-sounding, it's a nice addition; and if it still "works" after a century, it must be well-made and decently maintained.

    If you post a pic of the bowl, it should be apparent whether it's rosewood or not. If it is, it's almost certainly Brazilian (or at least South American); the wood was readily available around 1900, and the switch to Indian (Asian) rosewood didn't occur until around 1970, when Brazil embargoed export of rosewood logs, to help their domestic milling industry.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    Yes I agree how the initial intention of the instrument makers evolved. D'Angelico archtops are stunning btw. I think this mandolin must have been like you said a midgrade but possibly a custom order. The inclusion of Saturn seems unusual and dare I say personalized. Not that the original owner came from Saturn lol but he or she may have been interested in astronomy, Jules Verne etc...now if I could only get the flux capacitor going Thanks for your information and opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    Mandolins were certainly very popular among the Italian immigrant community in New York, and there were quite a few builders there around the turn of the 20th century. Some of these luthiers, and their descendants such as John D'Angelico, are still rated among the top builders of American acoustic instruments. At first, they were building for a specific ethnic clientele, who were used to the type of mandolin manufactured in Italy or around the Mediterranean; later, they branched out into other types of instrument, such as arch-top guitars, carved mandolins, banjos etc.

    There certainly was an "explosion" of interest in acoustic stringed instruments a century ago, with mandolins, banjos, ukuleles, guitars etc. being manufactured in the US by the hundreds of thousands. In addition there was a proliferation of zither-like oddities, from which only the Autoharp survives. A few years later, resonator-based stringed instruments were invented and developed, and companies like National and Dobro made thousands of those. The early 20th century is by many considered to be the "Golden Age" of American stringed instrument manufacture.

    Mannello is more than a footnote to this history, if brief internet research is any indication. A mandolin with 17 ribs, in the general scheme of things, sounds mid-range; some of the top-line instruments had over 30, often "fluted" or scalloped, with white holly strips inlaid between them. But the mother-of-pearl fretboard does indicate a higher-grade instrument. If it's playable and good-sounding, it's a nice addition; and if it still "works" after a century, it must be well-made and decently maintained.

    If you post a pic of the bowl, it should be apparent whether it's rosewood or not. If it is, it's almost certainly Brazilian (or at least South American); the wood was readily available around 1900, and the switch to Indian (Asian) rosewood didn't occur until around 1970, when Brazil embargoed export of rosewood logs, to help their domestic milling industry.

  6. #6
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    It's rosewood. Apparently from several boards, from the color differences.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    It's rosewood. Apparently from several boards, from the color differences.
    Hello,
    this is my first post...
    i just received a bowl back (Midland), supposedly made by Wurlitzer.

    my point is that your mandolin's tail piece dated "pat'd oct 26- 86" is the same date (and shape) as my "Midland" mandolin's tailpiece.

    Moreover My tailpiece has the initials RWB (R is backwards)

    I assume that the W stands for Wurlitzer???

    just an idea...any thoughts appreciated....as many post state L&H and others were "feeding from the same trough"

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    RWB is Wurlitzer for sure and you are correct that the patent date on the tp is for the tp.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    Hello Jim, Thanks for responding.

    I am new to the mandolin scene.

    I am not sure how to post a new topic.

    So i will ask:
    What is a good mandolin capo?

  10. #10
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    You can search for older threads on capos. Many players scoff at capos -- I don't really use one, but i do have a Shubb banjo capo which works fine for mandolin.
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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    Had a look at a Mannello mandolin tonight. Not as fancy as the photo. 23 ribs, rosewood. Really was in excellent shape apart from missing a piece of fretboard inlay. Old cruddy strings, but still quite playable with nice tone. I guessed 1910 so I wasn't that far off.
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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    Angelo Mannello family is still very proud of his achievements. They live in LA. One had a chance to handle the Met model a few years back. Plays well apparently.

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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    For posterity, I've had the good fortune to play around with 2 mandolins by Mannello of less quality than this image above. I have never come across any while abroad in Europe. They seem to be a rarity, yet of course come up relatively often within the States on the auction site.

    Perhaps because I wasn't really looking as I've only recently taken to the mandolin. Funny I remembered the name as I am primarily interested in Italian luthiers and classical guitar.

    Anyway, each at least 17 ribs, brazilian rosewood. No inlays such as this.
    They both had a really nice tone and fullness to the sound. I do remember that.
    It sounded very mature.

    So difficult to describe these things. Like trying to describe the taste of something sweet to someone who has never tasted something sweet before. What vocabulary does one use?

    I recommend trying one of the higher end, non mass market pieces if you can.
    fwiw

  14. #14
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    I have handled both the mandolins in the Metropolitan Museum tho I don't recall either of them set up to actually play. I also believe that Mannello possibly had them made by other luthiers in his employ in his shop. I will check my Met Museum musical instrument book. He also might have built some of these simpler models for other distributors as well which might explain why there are not many around.
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    Registered User PiccoloPrincipe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    Hello

    Ah. What a memorable experience.
    Who did you have to sleep with to do that?

    I am sure they weren't set up for playing. I would be very surprised, if not disappointed, if they were.

    However, I'd be very hesitant to state, and beyond dismayed, if he did not make them himself.
    He was a genuine luthier, and a respected one, after all .. and as any woodworker or luthier will tell you, once wood is in your blood it always is.

    Call me sentimental or idealistic, but although an astute businessman, he was a luthier first. Right off the boat, hiring other Italian mandolin makers right off the boat...so to speak.

    Excuse me, but I tend to block such talk as history is too easily re-written by those with only a little bit of information. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, and the accomplishments of other sullied by the little bit of information we have.

    I couldn't imagine him allowing others to create his "piece de resistance" ..
    Anyway, these remained within the family until the 70's or something prior to being donated to the MET, if I recall correctly. Obviously important heirlooms.

    At any rate, nothing surprises me of course. I mean Jose Ramirez III of the famous Ramirez Dynasty said he did not have to build guitars and just had others build them as once the designs were made anyone could build them ....sort of thing.

    But I don't believe that Mannello was a businessman type like Ermelinda Silvestri or Sgroi. Mancuso, et al. out of Catania looking to make money alone by producing anything and everything (junk) for export.

    He was an ambitious immigrant who hired other luthiers and woodworkers who were right off the boat, so to speak. Sure he was an adept businessman too, but to imply he ceased to be a luthier is dangerous.

    To believe he had photos taken holding mandolins, etc merely for publicity is all too cynical for this boy.

    But sure, workers assembled mandolins for him and did do all of his mass production work. And yes made for many others, and many without labels or the labels of others. Although an astute eye can often figure many of them out.

    Anyway, one off topic curiosity I have is the lack of pick guards on several I have come across.
    And, yes in fact I am certain by Mannello made for others...and a couple with his label.

    In fact one of the Mannello mandolins I recall playing with at someone's restoration shop in the past had no pick guard either..it had a Mannello label within, so I know.

    Everything else intact. The butterfly, the 2 flanking scrolls beside the butterfly at center but no pick guard?

    Was actual tortoise shell used during that time? Was it removed for motives of import/export?

    Or maybe they were just damaged and removed, but it piqued my curiosity enough to ask as it seems rather common from those I've come across..never thought about it until now.

    Anyway, excuse the length and don't take offense. Merely chatting..
    2 pages of typeface equals 30sec conversation after all.

    oh brother, I realize becoming involved within a forum again is going to become all too time consuming!
    Regards
    P

  16. #16
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    Sorry, PP... I did not mean that those masterpieces were not made by AM himself only that the lesser, more pedestrian and simpler Mannello mandolins were. Those two examples in the Metropolitan were made by him: Mannello #1.

    I had a friend who worked at the museum (since retired) and I went there a few times and visited in the back rooms.
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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    Here is Mannello #2.
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by PiccoloPrincipe View Post
    In fact one of the Mannello mandolins I recall playing with at someone's restoration shop in the past had no pick guard either..it had a Mannello label within, so I know.

    Everything else intact. The butterfly, the 2 flanking scrolls beside the butterfly at center but no pick guard?
    Maybe I am confused here? The original post above shows a mandolin with a butterfly inlay. Is that what the one you saw looked like?

    That butterfly inlay is common to many other mandolins I have seen from different shops in the US and was probably purchased from a pearl supplier. In fact I have seen other pearl patterns that are similar across different makers.
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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    Completely over the top, but... I do love the pick guard inlay on the first of those two Jim.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    I have seen a few other mandolins, possibly also by Mannello, which had those cherubim on it.
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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    Those presentation grade mandolins are totally sick.

  22. #22
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    Love the back on Numero Uno.

    I admit to being a lifelong fan of Art Nouveau (in its many regional guises.)

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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    This tickled my interest, not just for the mandolin, but being interested in New York history. After checking a couple of maps from the period, the only Eagle Avenue in NYC appears to be in the Bronx. It was a very Italian neighborhood though. There is no trace of the workshop now.

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    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevin View Post
    This tickled my interest, not just for the mandolin, but being interested in New York history. After checking a couple of maps from the period, the only Eagle Avenue in NYC appears to be in the Bronx. It was a very Italian neighborhood though. There is no trace of the workshop now.
    I find myself doing the same thing. When there's an address on a mandolin label, I'm on google earth right away to see if the buildings are still standing. Funny thing is that the east side of Eagle Avenue (676-680) looks like newer housing units. The part of the block on west side looks like they may be as old as to be from the period Manello was working.

    While a lot of the older buildings are residential a number of the buildings look like they may have been able to support a shop in the lower level. (Below the stoop, or whatever y'all call that half level down in NY.) 676-680 implies it might have been one larger building with multiple addresses. Even as torn up as the original neighborhood fabric is from newer development, it doesn't seem like larger buildings were set mid-block, but on the corners. This is Mott Haven, isn't it? Or Melrose?

    Hard to tell. Old Sanborn Insurance maps are a good resource for checking into these things. I'll dig around a bit in some on-line resources and see if they have anything from this area, this era. Here's a link to the NYPL collection of these maps (and others.)

    Cool stuff.

    Mick
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    Ann Arbor/Austin
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    6,281

    Default Re: Angelo Mannello Bowl Back Mandolin

    Bingo.

    This is from a 1908 Sanborn map of the Bronx. Eagle Avenue is to the left. (Nothing was on the 1891 map at this location--but I need to confirm that.)

    On these maps pink denotes a brick structure, yellow a wood building. The letter D indicates it is a residence occupied by not more than two families.

    Seems like Manello was spreading himself out on Eagle Avenue.

    Interestingly, though, there is a volume with a survey of the blocks and the owner's names. In the 1904 registry, Manello's block #2624, he is not listed as owning property. All of the owners' names sound German or English. If this was an Italian neighborhood, they were renting in 1904. (Which is not particularly surprising....)

    Mick
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