montgomery ward 1930 s

[Jim Garber]

Randy pm'ed me and he has to get over to his friend's house to take the pics. When he does he will send them to me or someone else to post them.

[culler]

a couple of members have offered to post them for me as soon as I take the pics and send to them. THanks. Jim.and Mick

[pfox14]

The anticipation is killing me

[culler]

I am going to take pics tomorrow, Jim.and Mick have offered to post them , Thanks guys Randy

[Michael Eck]

Here are a few pics of a 1936 Wards/RK 1642 I recently traded for a '37 Gibson A-1.

(I can't fathom why they flip upside down, but standing on your head will be good exercise).

[brunello97]

Thanks, Michael. I download the image and reuploaded it here. Easier on my neck...

Mick

[pfox14]

Nice looking mando, but what are those holes/bolts in the top??

[brunello97]

Nice looking mando, but what are those holes/bolts in the top??

The bridge looks unique from this angle as well...

Mick

[MikeEdgerton]

OK, let me start over. Michael, is that yours or the OP's mandolin?

This one is a Gibson second line instrument, without a label I can't tell you if it's a Wards model. The holes are from a pickup installation. Note the quarter inch phone jack. The bridge doesn't look original. I'd like to see the back of the headstock, I can't tell if the tuners are original. The tailpiece is either original or period. The patched holes drop the price significantly.

[MikeEdgerton]

Look inside in two places. Right under the f hole and then towards the neck block through the f hole. You may need a flashlight. There should be a stamped number in one of those two places. That will be the Factory order Number (FON). Get that number and we have a better chance of identifying what it was and when it was made.

[Michael Eck]

Mike,

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ighlight=wards

You've actually seen this one before, in this thread from October, which has most of the specifics. The bolts actually support of pickup which is attached directly to a thumbwheel in the bridge. It's a very interesting piece. It's now in the hands (thanks to help from Joe Spann) of the Gibson pickup expert Lynn Wheelwright.

The A-1 I received in trade is not quite as pretty, but plays well and sounds pretty fine. I haven't been able to put it down for the last few weeks.

[Jim Garber]

The pickup, however, is the beatin'est thing I ever struck. Never seen anything like that on a Gibson product before. It's almost more like a ViViTone pickup (designed by Lloyd Loar after he left Gibson) ... which leads to all sorts of idle speculation.

This doesn't look like it ever had tone and volume knobs. I'm not sure what the extra holes are for, but people generally don't drill holes for no reason. Somebody experimented on this puppy ... whether it was someone at Gibson or someone who bought the instrument for his own nefarious purposes, I can't really say.

That is quite odd. I assume that the 1642 was an entirely acoustic mandolin. It is really strange that there would not be any volume or tone controls, tho it could be controlled by outside controller or on the amp. I do see the output jack.

[MikeEdgerton]

OK, still waiting on the OP's pictures.

[pfox14]

Pickup is definitely not original to this mando. Very odd design and have no idea who made it. The Ward's Model 1642 was an acoustic, and Gibson did not make an electric mando for MWards at all. National made a similar bridge-pickup design, but not for a mando that I know of.

[Michael Eck]

The fact that it appears to be a home-made pickup is what interested Lynn.

I originally wanted to remove the bridge/pickup and return the instrument to an acoustic piece, but I had a hunch it might have some historic value, so I traded.

[Jim Garber]

Ok, finally got some pics.

[MikeEdgerton]

It's a Gibson second line instrument. Look for a FON and see if it is in Joe Spann's book. That will tell you the model and brand. The back is pressed, it has the ever telling brace inside. By the way, no Gibson mandolin had that peg head shape, the Gibson second lines however did. It looks like it's in good shape.

[brunello97]

Finally. $450 sounds like a pretty good price.

Mick

What's that on the headstock?

[culler]

Hi mick the mark on the headstock is a little chip in the veneer ......I found a number stamped in the F hole ...itis stamped in ink 65 2 B......It sounds great and plays nice....so $ 450 for a gibson made second line sounds GOOD to me... I borrowed it to take the pics but I dont think its leaving my house (LOL)......Thanks for all the input ...You guys are great ...Randy....aka rcoolz

[MikeEdgerton]

From Spann's Guide to Gibson, I'll take a stab that it's probably a 1936 because of the B suffix. There is no 652B listed but the list isn't complete. 651B was a batch of Recording King #1285's and 653B was a batch of Gibson L-75's. There are other second line instruments that are sprinkled through this series with the regular Gibson models including Cromwells, Kalamazoos, Old Kraftsman, Coast Wholesale and a few others. Unless someone else has another list of FON's that actually lists this batch we're back to the label inside. I know it's unreadable, can you get a shot of it anyway?

If we assume it is a RK 1642everything else fits including the back. The top is listed as carved, the back isn't. That would have been available in 36 and 37 so the FON falls in the date. If the round unreadable label is at least the same size as the Wards label you'll be as close as you'll ever be barring Paul or someone else having a listing of the FON for a batch of these.

[Joe Spann]

Since the publication of my book I receive new Gibson FONS almost every day, usually by e-mail.

One of those I received recently was 652B....which was a batch of Recording King model #1642 mandolins, thus confirming the subject of this thread as a Gibson-built 1936 Montgomery Ward product.

Joe Spann

[MikeEdgerton]

Well, there you go, proof positive that it is what it was said to be. I like things when they are cleaned up.

[culler]

so I found a mice little treasure for a good price..( it helps when your best friend is a builder/collector....and play in the same band) LOL...You guys are the best Thats why I hang out here ...I learned a lot Thanks Randy....rcoolz

[pfox14]

That's quite a little find. A great mandolin for a decent price and made by Gibson to boot. It's definitely pretty rare as I am sure Gibson made very few of these models. The 1642 has the distinction of being one of the only contract mandos with a carved top. Most of Gibson's other brands were pressed tops. Thanks for posting the pix.

[NickR]

Here's my 1642- currently, a seven string version! The guard has rotted- a huge hole in the middle. The FON inside is 571 B and 10 is added in pencil. This makes it 1936. At this time, Wards date stamped instruments- I think possibly as part of some guarantee- a dispatch date, perhaps. This has Feb 1937 inside. It has its slightly tougher chipboard case as well.