one mic set up inquiries

does a non tube large diagphragm mic still need a preamp to work well? (loud without feedback)

how can you get one of these loud enough to make sure it will be heard over the bar enough to be intelligable?

does speaker proximity make a difference? like is there some weird magnetic thing? i know to make sure that the mic doesnt "hear" the speakers... but will it hinder performance if the speakers are close to the mic but pointing away?

i never had to work one of these things, in the past when a single mic has been used a sound guy was doin the work. any pointers for this beginner is appreciated.

[mrbook]

We use on mic (AT 4033 or AKG C3000) all the time without a preamp - just the phantom power adapter. The farther away your speakers are, the more you can increase gain before feedback. I also bring it when using other systems, and one sound guy tipped it forward (and down) slightly, which we have done ever since. We play some small places (sometimes with only one speaker), but never have any problems using it with 3-7 people.

[Doug Edwards]

We use a Octava mic with a Sabine FBX eliminator for our phamtom power. We take it where ever we go and it works quite well for most situations. Room size and conditions (and sound tech) do vary how loud you can get any mic without feedback. We do not use monitors. Some friends of ours use two AT Pro 37's, one high and one low. They do a very good job as they seem to be more sensitive. Both the AT's and Octava serve well for our purposes. There are six in our group and we perform as tightly as we can. It's quite interesting, I've been hit by every instrument except the bass.

[Zed]

> does a non tube large diagphragm mic still need a preamp to work well? (loud without feedback)

No. Other than modifying the tone, a preamp will basically mean more gain which can equate to more feedback. We never use one, don't need one.

> how can you get one of these loud enough to #make sure it will be heard over the bar enough to be intelligable?

It's a balancing act and every room is different. We use a 2 mic (large diaphragm AT4040s) setup with a Behringer Ultracurve EQ and feedback destroyer. Each room we play has to be rung out with the UltraCurve but it makes a monstrous difference. If you're playing a 1 or 2 mic LD mic setup in a noisy bar, your quite frankly in for a headache. I personally would not even recommend it due to the ambient noise level. You'll never beat it. If there's any way you can use even 2-4 small diaphragm mics, either condenser or dynamic, do it.

> does speaker proximity make a difference?

3 words... Ab-So-Lutely.

> like is there some weird magnetic thing?

No, it's just sound radiation from the backs and sides of the speakers being picked up by the ultra sensitive LD mics.

> but will it hinder performance if the speakers are close to the mic but pointing away?

Again, absolutely. The proximity of your mics to the speakers will directly determine how much volume you'll be able to acheive before feedback and ringing takes over. And like i said, every single room is different.

well tonite we practiced with the new set up and we used an old sure elvis style mic as well and had it sounding pretty good.. the elvis mic added a lil bit of something ... something but it sounded good!

thanks for the tips i think we can pull off one maybe two mics at this gig but we are just getting our "electrified" sound together, so i definatly have plans to be equiped for micing each insturment.

i plan on trying to record a sound board mix of us next practice so we can hear whats really going on... being up in the mic right at the first note of your break was one thing we focused on tonight.

[mandroid]

Only small D condensers have onboard batterys for power,as I see.
Don't condensers have one stage of preamp in the internal circuit that the power phantom juice or battery runs? I can sit back and it still picks up.

Seems dynamicssorts must be virtually swallowed[close proximity] or screamed at ? as it appears.

[mike_c]

...ALL microphones need a preamp..condenser microphones also need either phantom power or a battery to work..(depending on their internal design) apparently,,,your question is if you need a external preamp instead of the built-in preamp in your mixing board...tubes in condenser mics have nothing to do with if the mic needs a preamp as ,like i said, all mics need a preamp to run.. (the power box with a tube mic powers the tube and supplies phantom power, but it is not a preamp)