4-string advice

[Bill Stokes]

Hi y'all. I'm new here, and somewhat timid to ask questions. I've been looking around this wonderful site for the past couple of days, and have seen some terrific players.

I believe I've finally arrived at the parameters for my ideal instrument: mandolin size, 4 strings, mandola tuning.

I know, this involves certain problems, or at least compromises. But I want the thing to sound like a jazz guitar; hence the tuning. I want to be able to play it very comfortably, hence the size. (I'm a violin player.) -sigh- I already sound high-maintenance, and this is my first #######' post.

Here is a video from this morning on my new mandobird. It has intonation issues. More about that anon...

http://youtu.be/PFfMyF9KMsE

[mandroid]

I have 2 CGDA tuned electrics 1 a hollow body , and the other solid.. Fun..

[Bill Stokes]

I have 2 CGDA tuned electrics 1 a hollow body , and the other solid.. Fun..

Perfect. What brands? Do they play well in tune? Do you order 5-string sets and toss out the E, or get custom sets?

[thistle3585]

I'd look at a 14.5" scale. It gives you the capability of tuning it CGDA or GDAE with ease. You will need to adjust the saddles accordingly but it isn't that big of a deal. You shouldn't notice too much of a difference in playing it except that you'll need to use two and three finger chords unless you have very large hands. Some builders may be able to shorten the scale a bit but then the C string becomes too sloppy to play.

Andrew

[Ed Goist]

Hi Bil:
Welcome! I am sure you will be able to find some great examples of what you're looking for.
Be sure to check-out the builders' page at emando.com.
Be sure to let us know what you decide on.

[Bill Stokes]

I'd look at a 14.5" scale. It gives you the capability of tuning it CGDA...

I definitely will. Would you recommend a particular brand?
I should have mentioned price range. I want to get something that sounds good for under $600 USD if possible.

[Shelby Eicher]

Hey Bil,
I'm in that world and here's a clip of my mando. 16 3/4 scale length which really helps with intonation. Since this video I have a new pickup which has improved it dramatically. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ0P9z3WtSM
Shelby

[thistle3585]

I definitely will. Would you recommend a particular brand?
I should have mentioned price range. I want to get something that sounds good for under $600 USD if possible.

I only know of two, myself and John Smith, that build 14.5" scale instruments but that isn't to say that there aren't others. I'd highly recommend emailing Martin Stillion at emando.com and he can track something down for you. He has a pretty extensive inventory.

[Soundfarmer Pete]

Here`s a jazzy clip from Tom Sailor (hope you don`t mind Tom)!!!

14 1/2" scale but tuned FCGD...not far out.

[Bill Stokes]

This is so cool. Thanks for the help, everyone. I've exchanged emails with Martin at eMando, and Tom at Moongazer.
I may have to adjust my scale-length preferences a bit. Shelby, that Rosetta chord melody is just delightful!

[Bill Stokes]

14 1/2" scale but tuned FCGD...not far out.

Would heavier gauge strings enable a 13.75" mandolin to play in tune with CGDA tuning?

I'm sure somebody has tried this.

[Tom Wright]

Many 5-strings have a 14" scale, as does my Ryder. C string works pretty well for me with .056. I use the bottom four (CGDA) for almost all chording and most melody. My 10-string is 14.25" (more exactly, 360mm), and the C's are strong enough for me with .047.

[thistle3585]

Ah yes, I forgot about Pete. I didn't know he made a 14.5" scale instrument. If you're talking to Tom at moongazer, ask him if he'll build you one. He built this 14.5" scale for me. Incredible instrument.

[mandroid]

Perfect. What brands?

1 is a 1off, made on demand, but not a continuing builder, A shaped standard 14" scale ,
the other was a Gibson A50,
I got already modified, a hole cut for a 3/4 \ 4pole stacked humbucker 'strat' format.

[Bill Stokes]

Shelby:

...Since this video I have a new pickup which has improved it dramatically.

Which pickup is that?

Bill

[mrmando]

Johnny Gimble somehow makes the CGDA tuning work at standard scale. Maybe that has to do with playing an archtop instrument and having some break angle across the bridge. With the exception of the Gregory Pentalin and its compound headstock, I've never seen a standard-scale solidbody that didn't have a floppy C. So I concur with the 14.5" advice. It'll be like playing a small viola.

[Bill Stokes]

Everything I've read on this site, plus some correspondence with Tom Morici, has me looking at the 15" mandola kit. Maybe I can stretch out the fingers a little in exchange for the sound I want.

I'm very grateful for all of the advice and assistance here. No doubt I'll be asking for more help...

[Jacob]

"Would heavier gauge strings enable a 13.75" mandolin to play in tune with CGDA tuning?
I'm sure somebody has tried this."

Yes, I have, with mixed results.
Heavier strings can reduce the "floppiness" of the low C.
However, if there is not adequate compensation at the bridge for the heavier string, it will not play in tune up the fingerboard.
The heavier string needs to have a longer vibrating length and may require bridge modification for this additional compensation.



Springs removed from C and G strings.

[mandroid]

Have an .050" C on mine, as I read, Mr Gimble did similar on his EM 150.

[JonK331]

I recently purchased a 5 string from Jonathan Mann tuned CGDAE in 14.7" scale. I could not be happier with the instrument. Jon is great to work with and I'm sure he'd be willing to make you anything you want. http://manndolins.com/

[mrmando]

Mr. Gimble's mandolin is not an EM150...and is C gauge is surprisingly light ... .046 IIRC. I could look it up.

[jlsmandolin1952]

Andrew has hit the nail on the head. You really need that extra scale length, to be successful. 14.5 works out quite well, along with a few other little tidbits. This is just my opinion, but I agree with Andrew.
Thanks, John
www.jlsmithmandolins.com

[thistle3585]

John,
Good to see you back in these parts. Hope all is well with you.

[Bill Stokes]

Hey y'all. I'm butting in here to say I just received my 15" mandola kit from Tom Morici at Moongazer. Been sanding on it for about an hour. (NOW I remember the first rule of sanding: Get somebody else to do it!)

I'm very excited about this instrument. Been practicing with the mandobird strung up CGDA. I did some amateur adjustments (guided by information from Tom) and the bird is just about tolerable, but as everybody told me, that C string won't really tune right.

Back to sanding...

[mandroid]

A fan fret is a good thing .. the scale is longer on the low end , shorter on the high end ..
adding that 5th string it really has a benefit ..