Good choice for to play Irish Music

[Galimando]

...the original mandolin players such as Mick Moloney played tater bugs...

I haven't seen Mick perform with anything other than a Gibson A for years, though.

[mikeyes]

I think the original mandolinists in Ireland played what they could get, like many of the other instruments those were usually castoffs or less expensive initially.

Mike

[Eddie Sheehy]

I know Derek Warfield (the Wolfe Tones) used to play a tater bug back in the 60's...

[Galimando]

I think the original mandolinists in Ireland played what they could get, like many of the other instruments those were usually castoffs or less expensive initially.

True enough!

[AnneFlies]

Trying to be heard in an Irish seisun with a mandolin is like trying to nail jello to a tree. Six or eight fiddles, up to five tin whistles, two pipers, a couple of concertinas, and an accordian: What mandolin is going to be heard above any of that? Just go and play and enjoy yourself.

[Shelagh Moore]

Trying to be heard in an Irish seisun with a mandolin is like trying to nail jello to a tree. Six or eight fiddles, up to five tin whistles, two pipers, a couple of concertinas, and an accordian: What mandolin is going to be heard above any of that? Just go and play and enjoy yourself.

That's why, a a regular session leader and sessioneer, I now play a National RM-1 in addition to my tenor banjo!

[Bertram Henze]

What mandolin is going to be heard above any of that?

An octave mandolin can be heard below all of that

[JP07]

Bertram, just joking, or serious alternative ? I have never played this instrument...

[Eddie Sheehy]

Two things Bertram doesn't joke about:
Whiskey and the Octave Mandolin...

[JP07]

And what differences between Octave Mandolin, Bouzouki, and Mandola ? I think about the lenght of the fret board and the scale ? Same question with the playing ?

[Bertram Henze]

Bertram, just joking, or serious alternative ? I have never played this instrument...

Oh my, did you miss out...

Two things Bertram doesn't joke about:
Whiskey and the Octave Mandolin...

Listen to Eddie!

And what differences between Octave Mandolin, Bouzouki, and Mandola ? I think about the lenght of the fret board and the scale ? Same question with the playing ?

Octave Mandolin: GDAE (some like GDAD), one octave below mandolin (hence the name), scale length up to 23"
Mandola: CGDA, one 5th below mandolin (fits between mandolin and OM)
Bouzouki: any tuning, scale length > 23"
The longer the instrument, the longer the stretches and the longer the sustain, playing styles vary accordingly.

OM Example: my 21" Fylde Touchstone OM.
It's pitch range is well outside the squeal of ordinary Irish music melody instruments. However, it still can be drowned out by an army of guitar players...

[JP07]

I had a look on Wiki and here is a few things I think I have understood.

From these instruments, the mandola has the shorter scale (about 17"), which is the nearest of the mandolin scale, but the usually tuning is CGDA. However, I read too that some IT musicians, such as Andy Irvine, restring their mandola with lighter strings and tune it in GDAE. But with an octave lower or exactly the same tining as a mandolin, which would be not really interesting ?

I have an old tater bug mandola and I could try this option. Many years ago I once tried to tune it in GDEA, but I have never found a good gauge for the strings. What could you recommend to me as gauges for the four strings of a 17" scale instrument for tuning it in GDAE ?

[Bertram Henze]

I read too that some IT musicians, such as Andy Irvine, restring their mandola with lighter strings and tune it in GDAE. But with an octave lower or exactly the same tining as a mandolin, which would be not really interesting ?

Andy Irvine is a GDAD man and has experimented with mandolin family instruments all his life.
Lighter strings and mandolin tuning on a mandola can have only two purposes, IMHO: more room for your fingers and longer sustain than a mandolin. However, this exercise won't bring you out of the high pitch range and it will probably make the mandola quieter, not louder (which is not important for an amplified stage player like Andy, of course).

To make an OM loud might take some tweaks, btw.
I experimented with string gauges (they must fit the top construction and depend very much on the instrument) and picks for quite a time. The biggest volume boost came from replacing the solid bridge by one that stands on two single feet (like a violin's).

[Mike Snyder]

That's why, a a regular session leader and sessioneer, I now play a National RM-1 in addition to my tenor banjo!

Never go into battle out gunned. Gibson F5g and a 17-fret Orpheum.

[liestman]

Never go into battle out gunned. Gibson F5g and a 17-fret Orpheum.

I am pretty sure a National RM1 (have one) outguns any non-resonator mando when it comes to single note picking of Irish tunes, but I do agree, take the tenorb just to be on the safe side.

[Goodin]

Andy Irvine is a GDAD man and has experimented with mandolin family instruments all his life.
Lighter strings and mandolin tuning on a mandola can have only two purposes, IMHO: more room for your fingers and longer sustain than a mandolin. However, this exercise won't bring you out of the high pitch range and it will probably make the mandola quieter, not louder (which is not important for an amplified stage player like Andy, of course).

To make an OM loud might take some tweaks, btw.
I experimented with string gauges (they must fit the top construction and depend very much on the instrument) and picks for quite a time. The biggest volume boost came from replacing the solid bridge by one that stands on two single feet (like a violin's).

I think Andy irvine tuned his Mandola with mandolin strings tuned a step down from mandolin pitch then used a capo at the second fret.

[Nick Gellie]

The two best Celtic mandolin players in the Bushwackers, Louis McManus and Dave O'Neill played F5 and A mandolins. Dave can make any mandolin sound great. He cracked out two tunes on my Indian made Givsen that made the tunes sound like they were played on a high quality mandolin. The Givsen was bought for $100 in Singapore. My three year old strums it like blazes at other times.

I use a Davy Stuart mandolin - bright resonant sounds that cuts through without amplification. I use a Paddy Burgin bouzouki for accompaniment tuned in GDAD. It is loud too but with a great warm tone because it has an induced arch like a Sobell octave mandolin. You can use any style of mandolin so long as it feels great on the fingerboard.

Go forth and pluck !

[Mike Snyder]

I am pretty sure a National RM1 (have one) outguns any non-resonator mando when it comes to single note picking of Irish tunes, but I do agree, take the tenorb just to be on the safe side.

Not at all saying that my F5 will outgun a RM1. I've NEVER been that foolish. Just stating what I'm armed with. Your National is in the top 3 on my "like to own" list.

[whistler]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. In a big session, I find it pointless to try and be heard above everyone else - the end result is everyone trying to be louder than everyone else (Thank God amplification is not the generally accepted in sessions). In that kind of session, I am happy as long as I can hear what I am playing. The only way it makes sense to me is if you treat it like being part of an orchestra, so the sound you make, however small in itself, contributes to the overall sound. Believe me, after playing mandolin in a klezmer band with, among other instruments, a clarinet, a tenor and a soprano sax, in even the most unruly of Irish sessions, being heard doesn't seem an issue anymore. (I have now switched to piano accordion in the klezmer band - and we don't have the sax players anymore.)

In my opinion, mandolins don't sound good when they're driven hard* (at least, not in Irish trad). The mandolin comes into its own in smaller, quieter sessions - say, up to 7 musicians - where every musician can hear every other and communicate musically.

*No doubt, some of the fine mandolin makers over on the building/repair forum will (rightly) argue that it depends on the build of the instrument. But, as fas Irish trad is concerned, the mandolin is a not-quite-naturalised foreigner and, as such, still has to earn its place in the music. When we consider the kinds of instruments it has to contend with - fiddle, pipes, flute, concertina, box, all of which are capable of, for practical purposes, infinite sustain - it makes sense to play the mandolin in such a way that makes the most of what sustain it has. Driving it hard does the opposite, maximising the attack, so that the sustained note is all but eclipsed.

[Goodin]

In my opinion, mandolins don't sound good when they're driven hard (at least, not in Irish trad). The mandolin comes into its own in smaller, quieter sessions - say, up to 7 musicians - where every musician can hear every other and communicate musically.

Well said.

[JP07]

Always about looking for a mandolin to play IT, seriously, what are you thinking about Fylde mandolins ? Prices are correct.

Less seriouly, Single Malt model is nice. Do you think I could choose the casks woods of my prefered whiskies, as Laphroaig, Caol Ila, lagavulin... Playing a nice tune, while drinking a drop of whisky, with a mandolin built with the woods from casks of this whisky, would certainly be a great experience...

[Bertram Henze]

Fylde is very good. There is more room on the fretboard than on most other mandolins. I play a Fylde OM, but I had the chance to play one of their mandolins once in a session. Very pleasant playing. Clear ringing sound.

There exists a few videos of our own Eddie Sheehy playing a Fylde Single Malt. Sounds good to me.
I don't know about custom whisky brands, though. Also, the top is made from the wood of the washbacks (larch), not the casks (oak is not the ideal top wood), and many distilleries have washbacks made of steel today (easier cleaning), so the choice is certainly limited

Congrats anyway to your Islay-heavy taste (I like Ardbeg).

[Shelagh Moore]

I had a Fylde Touchstone a few years back. Very nice for Irish music.

But, as fas Irish trad is concerned, the mandolin is a not-quite-naturalised foreigner and, as such, still has to earn its place in the music.

Not sure about that... mandolin has become commonplace over the past 40 years in ITM. I agree about not overdriving the mandolin though... that's one reason I like the National as I can play quite gently but still get good volume.

[JP07]

Thanks Bertram and Richard for your opinions about Fylde instruments.

First, purchasing a bottle of Ardbeg which I have never tasted, maybe a terrible mistake...

I had a look to the Fylde website and I have seen four models of mandolins which could be interesting for me. Without speaking about prices, which model would you choose fot IT ?

Touchstone (sapele/spruce)
Touchstone walnut (walnut/red cedar)
Touchstone Signature (indian rosewood/spruce)
Touchstone Single Malt (reclaimed oak/oregon pine)

Thanks very much

[Bertram Henze]

First, purchasing a bottle of Ardbeg which I have never tasted, maybe a terrible mistake...

If you can drink Laphroaig, Ardbeg 10 will take you beyond your peatiest dreams.

Without speaking about prices, which model would you choose fot IT ?

Touchstone (sapele/spruce)
Touchstone walnut (walnut/red cedar)
Touchstone Signature (indian rosewood/spruce)
Touchstone Single Malt (reclaimed oak/oregon pine)

Thanks very much

One of them will have a different sound from the others: red cedar tops give a warmer tone, but with less prominent volume. So if you want to be heard in a session, that's not the way to go.
The others are approx. in the same league soundwise, but differ much in back/side materials (and therefore in looks and price), so that's a matter of taste. My OM is the simple sapele/spruce combination (far from looking cheap, mind you), and since I am not a fancy stuff guy, I'd stick with that with a mandolin as well.