1923 Fern Loar F5

[Ben Milne]

Interesting to note that the F5 in the 1922 N catalogue was a fern...
(I gather this one is interesting as it is the earliest known fern, and chronologically out of place compared to other ferns?)

Hmm, the current eBay listing says 1922 (22-23 in the description, it seems Fox guitars lists catalog N as 1923. Fox also states that F5s can fetch up o half a million dollars in the vintage market.
It seems the original intent was fern inlay for the F5, perhaps someone's personal choice or an abundance of flowerpots influenced this.

[pjlama]

I was talking to Chris Stanley about Loars. I was stressed out owning a Gilchrist, and he was telling me that owning a Loar is very stressful. I'd love one if I could afford but I think I'd be flipping out all the time. It would be like a cartoon when they get hungry and see the other character as a giant drum stick. The Loar would look like cars, private school, vacations, second home, etc.. Bless those who own them, you're much stronger than I am.

[Tim W]

I played that one upstairs at Gruhn's and thought it sounded fine, I don't think it was the best I ever played though and that is just comparing Loars to Loars, not compared to the Ellis on the wall that blew every other mandolin in the place away.

That was one of the better sounding Ellis' I've played incidentally but heck it's my ears and they are different than your ears so it's all subjective anyway. There wasn't a bad instrument in the place, unfortunately they were closing or I'd still be there "trying them out".

[RCarrier73988]

Hopefully this Fern will end up in the hands of a pro, so we can see it out and about and getting played, as opposed to a collector...

Speaking of Collectors, I visited Benny Cain in Falls Church, Virginia, in September 1972. He had three Loars, I tried to get him to sell me one, and he said as long as he played, he would need them all. I told him that even if he could play with his feet, he could only use two of them. He had one that came from out in Kansas, that was gem mint. That was the finest mandolin that I ever had in my hands. Have no idea where it is today.

[pjlama]

Speaking of Collectors, I visited Benny Cain in Falls Church, Virginia, in September 1972. He had three Loars, I tried to get him to sell me one, and he said as long as he played, he would need them all. I told him that even if he could play with his feet, he could only use two of them. He had one that came from out in Kansas, that was gem mint. That was the finest mandolin that I ever had in my hands. Have no idea where it is today.

What was the going price for a Loar in 72'? I was one but am just curious. I thought there was a thread about Loar values over years somewhere but am too lazy too find it. If there isn't I'd love to see something like this;
Median Loar values by decade from 1920's to 2010's
1920's - $?
1930's - $?
1940's - $?
1950's - $?
1960's - $?
1970's - $?
1980's - $?
1990's - $?
2000's - $?
2010's - $?

[f5loar]

[QUOTE=pjlama;1072189]What was the going price for a Loar in 72'? I was one but am just curious. I thought there was a thread about Loar values over years somewhere but am too lazy too find it. If there isn't I'd love to see something like this;
Median Loar values by decade from 1920's to 2010's
1920's - $250
1930's - $250
1940's - $150
1950's - $500
1960's - $1000
1970's - $2000
1980's - $8000
1990's - $25000
2000's - $150000
2010's - $200000
That's my guess from memory. Darryl Wolfe may have more exact figures

[D C Blood]

I was offered a choice of two, one w/Virzi one w/o, back in '69, for $1200. At the time I had a mando that sounded better than either of them (Duffey's '34? F-7) so I respectfully declined, even though I did have the money at the time. I don't remember the particulars, such as year, date, 'pot or fern...What the heck, if I had bought one of 'em I probably would have sold it when the price went up to $5000....

[pjlama]

Well, I better get working on my time machine. There are not many investments with that type of return, most notably from the 90's to the 2000's. Thanks for the info, very interesting.

[William Smith]

I was offered a choice of two, one w/Virzi one w/o, back in '69, for $1200. At the time I had a mando that sounded better than either of them (Duffey's '34? F-7) so I respectfully declined, even though I did have the money at the time. I don't remember the particulars, such as year, date, 'pot or fern...What the heck, if I had bought one of 'em I probably would have sold it when the price went up to $5000....

Yep your still kickin your own butt for swapin that to uncle Dick,,It is one heck of a mandolin for being a mutt!

[Jim Hilburn]

When I first became "aware" in about 72-73 I heard $4000. For some reason I remember seeing an ad for a Pontiac Lemans at about that time for $3800 so a Loar was still totally out of reach, especially for me.

[AlanN]

1990's - $25000

I recall 40K as the standard going price back then for a not-messed-with Loar F-5.

[f5loar]

You have to give an average for that decade. The range of prices within that decade could be pretty wide. I gave averages for that particular decade. What you remember for a particular year is probably correct justp notbthevaverage for that decade. Maybe a 5year breakdown would be better. I'll let Darryl do that!

[pjlama]

You have to give an average for that decade. The range of prices within that decade could be pretty wide. I gave averages for that particular decade. What you remember for a particular year is probably correct justp notbthevaverage for that decade. Maybe a 5year breakdown would be better. I'll let Darryl do that!

I appreciate what you've done already. You give and inch and they take a mile

[sgarrity]

I started paying attention to these things in the mid-late '90s. I remember $50k-ish then. During the boom years I understand that there were a few that sold for $200k. But now.......Elderly has been sitting on 4, count 'em 4, Loar F5s for how long now? I'm sure there have been many Loars sold privately in the past few years. But the open market is SOFT on all instruments. It would be interesting to know what the actual selling price is on Loars that are moving. I'd speculate no more that $150k.

[evanreilly]

Just in case anyone is interested in a concrete, rather than theoretical.....

http://http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/57996

[Glassweb]

I started paying attention to these things in the mid-late '90s. I remember $50k-ish then. During the boom years I understand that there were a few that sold for $200k. But now.......Elderly has been sitting on 4, count 'em 4, Loar F5s for how long now? I'm sure there have been many Loars sold privately in the past few years. But the open market is SOFT on all instruments. It would be interesting to know what the actual selling price is on Loars that are moving. I'd speculate no more that $150k.

Way over $150K actually... and at least 3 or 4 that I'm aware of...

[Ken Waltham]

Me too.

[sgarrity]

Well you guys are certainly more in tune to the Loar market than I am. I'm assuming those were private sales? Still makes me wonder why the ones on the open market don't seem to be moving.

[f5loar]

I think we discussed this many months ago about why so many for sale and none being sold. Well they are being sold you just don't hear about it. Many are private sells. Others sell for much less than the asking price. The big reason the dealers are not selling is all the buyers that can afford one already have one and all the buyers that want one can't afford one. Many of these for sale are on consignment and the cosignors don't need to sell at a loss just yet. Many big spenders are just waiting until Nov. to see which way things may go with the economy. There could be a big sell off in the stock market come mid Nov. and then investors will put their cash into hard assets like Loars and Beanie Babies.

[brunello97]

... Many big spenders are just waiting until Nov. to see which way things may go with the economy. There could be a big sell off in the stock market come mid Nov. and then investors will put their cash into hard assets like Loars and Beanie Babies.

A wise person would trust your Gibson evaluation skills far more than your economic ones. Stock market is up 43% (Dow) since Nov 4, 2008. Only a very naive (or jaded) person would suggest that the sky is preparing to fall. You can't clean up a big big structural economic mess in a few years or with a few slogans or a few tax breaks. To suggest otherwise is to misunderstand the issues at a very very fundamental level. Better to keep an eye on the banks and keep playing your mandolins rather than who's president if you want to know which way the wind blows.

Mick

[RCarrier73988]

What was the going price for a Loar in 72'? I was one but am just curious. I thought there was a thread about Loar values over years somewhere but am too lazy too find it. If there isn't I'd love to see something like this;
Median Loar values by decade from 1920's to 2010's
1920's - $?
1930's - $?
1940's - $?
1950's - $?
1960's - $?
1970's - $?
1980's - $?
1990's - $?
2000's - $?
2010's - $?

At the time I spoke with Benny Cain, the going price was $2,500.00. I can remember
a few years earlier seeing one listed in BU for $ 1,600.00. I figure that around 1970-
1972, that a dollar would be worth ten times what it is today. A small coca-cola could be bought for 6-10 cents. Today, they're probably around a dollar. At that ratio, a twenty five hundred mandolin, would sell for 25,000 to 30,000. Yet a Loar
will bring that several times over. It all seems to go by to that age old law of "supply vs. demand."

[Glassweb]

Well you guys are certainly more in tune to the Loar market than I am. I'm assuming those were private sales? Still makes me wonder why the ones on the open market don't seem to be moving.

Lots of reasons I guess. Firstly, a number of these Loars were priced way too high for the market. And a number of them are still priced too high! The pricing of the Loars on Elderly's list (for example) just does not make a lot of sense to me (and other dealers/collectors I have spoken with).

Also, people who are looking for a Loar F5 are usually looking for something "special"... the cleaner and "less circulated" the better so far as I can tell. Yes, there have been (and continue to be) some private sales, but Mandolin Central, Mandolin Bros and Gruhn are not private dealers and they seem to keep them moving. Lloyd Loar F5's are not bringing the $200K+ that some of them brought before the banks were "saved", but they are indeed selling.

[Links]

Lots of reasons I guess. Firstly, a number of these Loars were priced way too high for the market. And a number of them are still priced too high! The pricing of the Loars on Elderly's list (for example) just does not make a lot of sense to me (and other dealers/collectors I have spoken with).

Also, people who are looking for a Loar F5 are usually looking for something "special"... the cleaner and "less circulated" the better so far as I can tell. Yes, there have been (and continue to be) some private sales, but Mandolin Central, Mandolin Bros and Gruhn are not private dealers and they seem to keep them moving. Lloyd Loar F5's are not bringing the $200K+ that some of them brought before the banks were "saved", but they are indeed selling.

Wow - a Loar owner who is realistic about pricing - but then again Glassweb always seems to have a realistic view of these things even though he is an owner. Hopefully I am that way regarding some of my nicer collectible instruments - although difficult. I don't need to tell anyone here how supply and demand works, but if there are a lot of these instruments on the market and they are sitting there, then there are a lot of folks that think they are overpriced. I guess it is natural for owners to look at pricing differently than perspective buyers!

[JFDilmando]

rather interesting to note that this mandolin has "reversed labels" with signature on base side with serial number on treble....
Is this seen on many other July 9's ???

[Mandolin Mick]

Tom,

Thanx for posting the approximate values of Loar Gibsons over the decades! Wow!