MIDI from Mandolin

[jharr]

What Pickup and other equiptment do I need for MIDI from standard Eastwood solid body electric mandolin to input and output from Casio WK3200 Keyboard?I want to make some backing tracks, and play different instrument to them and finally send to youtube? I want to use instrument sounds from Casio WK3200 to play to backing tracks so I can upload to Youtube. If this is confusing ask questions.

[jim simpson]

You should be able to use the GK-2A pickup, it is designed for guitar but should be able to be used with 4 of the divided pickups for the e-mando.
See link:

http://home.epix.net/~joelc/rmc.html

A search should yield some past discussion of this on the Cafe (I seem to recall).

Sounds like fun!

[foldedpath]

I've used the RMC hex piezo pickups on electric guitar, and they work very well, with better cross-talk isolation than the standard Roland GK-2 pickup. RMC apparently makes one model just for mandolins. I'd suggest emailing or calling to ask about how it would fit on your Eastman bridge:

http://www.rmcpickup.com/products.html

You can't get to Midi with just a pickup though, whether it's this one or the Roland version. The pickup needs to feed something called a pitch-to-Midi converter, which analyzes each string and converts that to a Midi stream that can then feed a keyboard or other Midi sound source. The market for Midi converters has retracted in recent years; I use an Axon AX 100 for my RMC-equipped guitar, but apparently these are no longer made.

The current Roland converter seems to be the Roland GR-55 which currently runs about $800 USD, or $900 with the GK-2 pickup. This isn't just a converter, it also includes an onboard synth and some of the VG-series processing, so it will likely sound as good or better than your keyboard (partly due to internal optimization of lag with the internal sounds).

If there's a less expensive way to do this, I hope someone here will jump in with the info. You might also try looking on the used market for secondhand, older Roland or Axon converters, since Midi is something that many people try, and eventually give up. It's always been expensive and somewhat tricky to do this with stringed instruments. Even when you get it working, you'll have to "play to" the device... nice and clean, so it doesn't glitch.

Note: You may also hear about cheap monophonic Midi converters that work off a standard pickup output. While these may work for playing individual notes (and only if you play very cleanly), it won't handle chords, which requires full separate-string polyphonic conversion. And chords are some of the coolest things you can do with Midi conversion... that feeling of a full violin orchestra under your fingers, or synth pads. If you're going to fool with Midi at all, I recommend going whole-hog on polyphonic synthesis so you can use all your strings.

Of course, I recommend going whole-hog on most things music gear-related, so caveat emptor. This is another one of those deep dark rabbit holes you can fall into.

[jharr]

Thanks guys, I will do some research. I will be looking for used, at 80 years I don't want to get too involved dollar wise. I play electric bass most, but I play most stringed instruments and keyboard. You can see some of my learning how to and failing, at Youtube search (7jharr9) and ( http://www.loco.jharr.angelfire.com ). Any suggestions welcome except, ( burn all your instruments and get a new hobby). That would hurt. James

[mandroid]

RMC pickup pieces supply the signal , 1 per string .. Godin A8 uses the 2 per string version.

I got a custom retrofit using 2 of their pickup types , the Acoustic gold is the smallest.
that's what Godin Buys. they are made to be part of a wooden bridge, with the individual signal wires run down thru the top.

It substitutes 6 of them for a guitar's bridge in a flat top , then an 8 pin jack goes in the edge.

[the Fender Strat version imbeds an acoustic gold like element in a format
like the fender adjustable bridge pieces, that went in the Strat like 5 string]

... then the external electronic black box RMC Poly drive 2,
provides the 13pin jack for the pitch to MIDI conversion,
in the Roland/Axon module.

in my case the 8 pin patch cord for the acoustic setup , lets me share the same
poly drive box..

you could use the polydrive 1 and have a cavity routed in the edge to install it.

Rolands GK pickup is a strip of 6 little magnetic pickups and other bits
to stick on top of the instrument body.
, that results in using the 13 pin cable ,to connect to the rest of the signal chain.

[PJ Doland]

If you don't mind monophonic output, you could try one of these for only $149:

http://www.amazon.com/Sonuus-Musicpo.../dp/B004B4S6HA

[mandroid]

the makers site :http://www.sonuus.com/products_i2m_mp.html..
it appears you need to have the right software on your computer.

then a set of 5 pin jacks to run an external devise like a keyboard with an in/thru connection.

I managed to use a Y'ha keyboard, for the sound library and amplifier / speakers. from my Roland GR33..

looking further .. this has the 5 pin jack, in it..http://www.sonuus.com/products_g2m.html

[Verne Andru]

From what I've read the new Roland GR-55 doesn't like RMC or other non-Roland pickups very much. But GR-33's are going pretty cheap these days and work fine as long as you don't want the VG and looping stuff.

[rico mando]

i would not bother installing midi capable pickup system on a 8 string mandolin . you can do a 4 string but really you should get a 5 string . the fender fm60e is a 5 string that converts easy as it is hollow . i am using the graphtech ghost system . but you still have to out lay some big bucks for the virtual sound generator /signal converter , and i plug into the axon ax-100 the Graphtech system will also work for bass guitar .

[jharr]

Thanks again you guys. All that is good information. I think since what I want to do is just a hobby, I will just use the keyboard and camcorder for the different sounds and use the stringed instruments for the different genres.
My advice to all musicians is to spend as much time as possible playing while you can as I am 80 now and for a long time it seems I play worse as each day passes.
James

[costasxanthou]

Dear friend hello!

My name is Costas from Cyprus.

I was really glad to read about using 2 string pickups!
I read what you wrote about it and your setup to midi conversion

I wanted to kindly ask more about it. Using a Roland/ Axon module to convert the sound of 2 strings worked properly?
I have heard that using a piezo pickup originally made only for 1 string could cause triggering problems when converted to midi, but I really do not know more about it.

Using a piezo pickup made for 2 strings like your setup worked fine? I suppose that latency was not an issue, but what about triggering or glitching sounds? Is the final conversion - result of the sound good enough to use it for live?
I know there are programs today using a computer for that, but is the computerless approach you used good enough for live performance?


What would you advice me to do? Do you have any other ideas or approaches I could keep in mind, that could be good enough for a live performance?



Any help and information would be nice!


Yours sincerely

Costas Xanthou

[darrylicshon]

If you want a real midi mandolin you could always buy a zeta it comes with the pickup already
https://zetaviolins.com/catalog

[costasxanthou]

Dear friend hello!

In my previous post I was trying to ask mandroid but do not know how to use posts here.


Dear mandroid!! you wrote :


RMC pickup pieces supply the signal , 1 per string .. Godin A8 uses the 2 per string version.

I got a custom retrofit using 2 of their pickup types , the Acoustic gold is the smallest.
that's what Godin Buys. they are made to be part of a wooden bridge, with the individual signal wires run down thru the top.

It substitutes 6 of them for a guitar's bridge in a flat top , then an 8 pin jack goes in the edge.

[the Fender Strat version imbeds an acoustic gold like element in a format
like the fender adjustable bridge pieces, that went in the Strat like 5 string]

... then the external electronic black box RMC Poly drive 2,
provides the 13pin jack for the pitch to MIDI conversion,
in the Roland/Axon module.

in my case the 8 pin patch cord for the acoustic setup , lets me share the same
poly drive box..

you could use the polydrive 1 and have a cavity routed in the edge to install it.

Rolands GK pickup is a strip of 6 little magnetic pickups and other bits
to stick on top of the instrument body.
, that results in using the 13 pin cable ,to connect to the rest of the signal chain.

My name is Costas from Cyprus.

I was really glad to read about using 2 string pickups!
I read what you wrote about it and your setup to midi conversion

I wanted to kindly ask more about it. Using a Roland/ Axon module to convert the sound of 2 strings worked properly?
I have heard that using a piezo pickup originally made only for 1 string could cause triggering problems when converted to midi, but I really do not know more about it.

Using a piezo pickup made for 2 strings like your setup worked fine? I suppose that latency was not an issue, but what about triggering or glitching sounds? Is the final conversion - result of the sound good enough to use it for live?
I know there are programs today using a computer for that, but is the computerless approach you used good enough for live performance?


What would you advice me to do? Do you have any other ideas or approaches I could keep in mind, that could be good enough for a live performance?



Any help and information would be nice!


Yours sincerely

Costas Xanthou

[gspiess]

With a few exceptions, I don't think MIDI for strings really hit its stride like keyboards and drums. My impressions are that the technology has moved on to Modelling where you can use "standard" pickups feeding a signal into a box and have it converted to whatever instrument you want. A few years back I did some work with a guitarist who had a Line 6 acoustic that he could emulate a number of other instruments, including 12 string, banjo, and a few synth pads. My son has a Line 6 pedal board for his Tele that is pretty impressive, but he sticks to standard guitar patches rather than get into the crazy stuff it can do.

[gtani7]

You could look at Fishman's pickups, they're supposed to have lowest tracking error of available pickups: https://www.premierguitar.com/articl...pleplay-review

And there's software/hardware to convert analog audio streams to note codes and CC's (this one would require compiling c programs): https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/AnalogToMidi

This is a good book about synths: https://global.oup.com/academic/prod...cc=us&lang=en&