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Thread: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

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    Work in Progress Ed Goist's Avatar
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    Default Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    I have seen scales lengths for single-string (4 & 5 string) electric octave mandolins ranging from 17" to 23"+.
    That's quite a range.
    What are the reasons, pros and cons for the various scale lengths?
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    Luthier&Pickup maker ret. Soundfarmer Pete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    I`ve done a couple of double necks with 20" scale so nice to know I`ve used a happy medium!
    Actually, the reason I went with 20" was simply that the fella ordering the first one had an acoustic mandola and was happy with the dimensions and playability so thought it would save trouble when swapping from one instrument to the other

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    Work in Progress Ed Goist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    Well, in an effort to stimulate more discussion on this, let me rephrase my question...
    Since a shorter scale length on an OM generally enhances playability by allowing for easier fret stretching, why aren't all electric octave mandolins built to the shortest scale practical for proper tuning and string tension?
    c.1965 Harmony Monterey H410 Mandolin
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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    String gage, thinner-long, thicker-short.
    Example:
    I have my P5 Pentaula stringed heavy, and it's a 15" scale GDAEB the G is an .056"
    rather thick electric guitar string .. the others similar to mandolin gages,

    so the B is thick enough to make a strong signal ,
    in the same way a CGDA, on a standard mandolin scale, solves the weak E issue by displacing it..
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    Registered User John Gardinsky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    I am in the planning stages of an electric octave/ tenor guitar. Tuned gdae, four strings, based loosely on a Tele type design. I am planning on using the fender 25.5" scale cut at the second fret. This results in a scale a bit under 22 & 3/4".

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    Work in Progress Ed Goist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    Thanks John. Will you be commissioning this build, or building the instrument yourself?
    c.1965 Harmony Monterey H410 Mandolin
    "What a long, strange trip it's been..." - Robert Hunter
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    My 5-string tenor guitar (tuned FCGDA) has about 22 & 3/4 inch scale, which I believe is pretty typical for tenor guitars. My old 4-string version with this scale could handle both GDAE and CGDA, depending on string guage.

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    Registered User John Gardinsky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    Gonna do it myself

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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    For "open" position @ the nut
    I like 18" but have learned to play a 20"
    scale without jumping around too much.
    With a longer scale lijke 25" I have to
    move my hand to finger the notes.
    Its kind of a distraction.
    Further up the neck of course the
    scale doesn't make much difference.

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    Work in Progress Ed Goist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    Thanks for the replies.
    As Mandroid points out, one benefit of a longer scale e-o-mando would be thinner strings and less tension. This would give more "bend-abilitying", a nice trait in a single-stringed electric.
    Joel, how is the gauge/tension on your 18" scale e-o-mando?
    Has anyone played e-o-mandos of differing scale lengths? If so, what's your preference and why.
    c.1965 Harmony Monterey H410 Mandolin
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    I usually use a 22 1/8 stringlength on both electric & acoustic OMs. I feel that length gives a solid fundimental sound with enough upper partials to add some zing & shimmer. I have made some electric single string versions with a 19 inch string length for people who wanted to do alot of bending. They liked 'em, I didn't.

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    Work in Progress Ed Goist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    TDMpicker posted a link to the handy-dandy fret distance calculator from Stew Mac over on this thread, and I used it to show the effect of scale length on fret span for short scale electric octaves. Pretty interesting...

    Code:
    Scale Length	Distance from Nut to 5th Fret
        18"	                  4.515"
        19"	                  4.766"
        20"	                  5.017"
        21"	                  5.268"
        22"                   5.519"
    Notice how the scale length difference between 18" & 22" adds almost exactly 1 inch to the distance from the nut to fret #5.
    c.1965 Harmony Monterey H410 Mandolin
    "What a long, strange trip it's been..." - Robert Hunter
    "Life is too important to be taken seriously." - Oscar Wilde
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    Work in Progress Ed Goist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    Though GD mentions above some possible tonal benefits for a longer scale length on an electric instrument (thanks for those coments), many knowledgeable folks have suggested to me that the tonal effects of scale are either very minimal or non-existent on solid-bodied electrics. So, this begs the question:
    Why aren't there more (any) short scale electric guitars with thicker gauge strings?
    c.1965 Harmony Monterey H410 Mandolin
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    In response to Ed G's question "Why aren't there more (any) short scale electric guitars with thicker gauge strings?" I suspect it's because the electric guitar world "standardized" around the Fender (25.5") / Gibson (24.75") / Martin (25.4" or 24.9") scale lengths, and scales in between (e.g., PRS' 25").

    I've played a couple of Rickenbackers with much shorter scale lengths, and I used to have a Byrdland with a 23.5" scale that I could never get used to.

    But an e-mando is different (fifths, not fourths). Tenor guitars (historically tuned in fifths, but historically tuned to CGDA) typically had scale lengths from 21" to 23".
    EdSherry

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    Mano-a-Mando John McGann's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Goist View Post
    Well, in an effort to stimulate more discussion on this, let me rephrase my question...
    Since a shorter scale length on an OM generally enhances playability by allowing for easier fret stretching, why aren't all electric octave mandolins built to the shortest scale practical for proper tuning and string tension?
    Shorter scale yields a tubbier, less shimmery sound. Compare a 22" Fender Mustang with a Strat (or even a "Gibson scale" with a "Fender scale")- in most cases, you get a more piano-like sound with shimmery overtones with a longer scale.

    To me the choice is between sound and playability. I can handle a 23" scale and the sound, to me, is much more 'hi fi' than any shorter scale OMs I've tried (although I sure haven't tried 'em all!).

    I have a 24.75" electric guitar strung as an OM and it's just a little too long for my reach (to do everything I need to do)...

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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    Ed & John, thanks for the comments. Very informative.
    c.1965 Harmony Monterey H410 Mandolin
    "What a long, strange trip it's been..." - Robert Hunter
    "Life is too important to be taken seriously." - Oscar Wilde
    Think Hippie Thoughts...
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    Quote Originally Posted by John McGann View Post
    Shorter scale yields a tubbier, less shimmery sound. Compare a 22" Fender Mustang with a Strat (or even a "Gibson scale" with a "Fender scale")- in most cases, you get a more piano-like sound with shimmery overtones with a longer scale.

    To me the choice is between sound and playability. I can handle a 23" scale and the sound, to me, is much more 'hi fi' than any shorter scale OMs I've tried (although I sure haven't tried 'em all!).

    I have a 24.75" electric guitar strung as an OM and it's just a little too long for my reach (to do everything I need to do)...
    Hey John, finally a use for my kid's old telecaster in the basement! How do you have your's strung, as in gauges, position of strings and such. Did you just go with five strings or double up one or two?

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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    The great tenor banjoists like Harry Reser and Roy Smeck had no problem getting around on a 23" scale tenor banjo. In terms of sound and projection, those banjos banjos had enough to reach the back of a vaudeville house. It is a stretch for a mando player to reach some of those notes without thinking more like a banjo player in terms of hand positions, chord shapes, etc. That said, I've been playing a 21" short scale B&D banjo, and a 21" Earnest Selma tenor in GDAE tuning. That seems to be a good compromise scale length and string tension. Italian tunes and tangos on tenor banjo are fun!

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    Registered Mandolin User mandopete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    My Jonathan Mann 5-string octave-baritone is an 18" scale length and while it's very comfortable I'm having just a dickens of a time keeping it in tune. I may have to go with even heavier gauge strings than what I have now (54/40/28/15/11). I agree with John McGann that the longer scale length produces a brighter tone and that makes a lot sense from physics point of view.
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    5 strings, left off the 6th string space like Keith Richards...I forget what string gauges I used, but based around a .010 on top.

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    poor excuse for anything Charlieshafer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    Quote Originally Posted by John McGann View Post
    5 strings, left off the 6th string space like Keith Richards...I forget what string gauges I used, but based around a .010 on top.
    Cool, thanks John.

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    Work in Progress Ed Goist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric Octave Mandolin Scale Length

    Lots of great insights in this thread. Thanks!
    I'm beginning to think that the most appropriate choice for me for a second 4-string electric tuned to the lower octave would be a tenor guitar (23" scale) tuned GDAE. I'm thinking such an instrument would be a more dynamic partner for my e-mando, and would provide me with a nice guitar-like feel and vibe.
    c.1965 Harmony Monterey H410 Mandolin
    "What a long, strange trip it's been..." - Robert Hunter
    "Life is too important to be taken seriously." - Oscar Wilde
    Think Hippie Thoughts...
    Gear: The Current Cast of Characters

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