Is it an OM or a Bouzouki?

[Bertram Henze]

...I'd imagine a good luthier could build a fairly sparkly sounding instrument in that scale length range, with good woods and a skilled hand for graduating the top, bracing pattern, etc...

A very solid imagination - they do exist (at least I think my 21" Fylde OM is sparkly enough without losing depth). The rest is a matter of pick choice, pick angle and clean strings.

[AnneFlies]

I'm considering an OM from Weber, the Sage (flattop, D-hole). Elderly's has the longer scale, and I was going to go up there to try it, but there's a home game today (Michigan State football). There's also a short scale available in the same model, but not locally (The Mandolin Store in AZ). I've been playing the melody, mostly Celtic, but some old-time too. Just trying to decide, and all your knowledge is certainly helpful - thanks!

[Ed Goist]

Anne, I have slightly smaller than average hands for a man, and I find the 22" scale on my Hyalite very comfortable to play (once I get adjusted from the mandolin scale!). It is fairly easy to cover frets 1 through 5 in the first position, though the pinky does get a decent workout. I'll also say that the Weber set-up (nut width, neck profile & width, fretboard radius and large frets) all contribute to the OM's fine playability. I am very pleased with both the playability and the tone of the Weber 22" OM scale. I'd suggest you try it before deciding on the shorter scale.

[Steve-o]

"The biggest advantage to longer scale mandolin family instruments is that no one expects you to be able to play blistering melody lines or leads on them." [Ed Goist]

Yeah, and John McGann too. What he does on the fingerboard of his Sobell defies all reason.

[Steve-o]

Anne - ...It's important to find a scale that works for you physically as well as tonally. I play an OM with a 20.5" scale. I started on a beautiful OM with a 22.5" scale length and ultimately sold it b/c it was just too long for me to play comfortably.

I think Karen is spot on with this advice. Make sure you play as many OMs as you can before deciding on the right one for you.

[Ed Goist]

...snip...and John McGann too. What he does on the fingerboard of his Sobell defies all reason.

No doubt!

[Ed Goist]

I'm considering an OM from Weber, the Sage (flattop, D-hole). Elderly's has the longer scale, and I was going to go up there to try it, but there's a home game today (Michigan State football). There's also a short scale available in the same model, but not locally (The Mandolin Store in AZ). I've been playing the melody, mostly Celtic, but some old-time too. Just trying to decide, and all your knowledge is certainly helpful - thanks!

Anne; here's something you might find interesting: Jon Mann just uploaded a video (below) of a gorgeous, new, carved top and back, 2-Point Mann Octave Mandolin he just built with a shorter (20.25") scale.
Impressive looking and sounding instrument.
And here is the Cafe Classified listing for this OM.
Oh, and I have no financial interest, other than hoping someone else buys it soon so I will not be dwelling on its availability!

[AnneFlies]

Hey Ed - go for it, and I'll buy the Hyalite off you. How's that for a deal?

The problem with trying out different OMs is they are so few and far between. I love Weber mandolins, and there's an OM at Elderly's, but there's also so many others. This search is going to take awhile!

[otterly2k]

You said it, Anne. The search DOES take a while for exactly that reason. Many of us go through a period of "catch and release"... buying and trying and selling different instruments until we find the right match. I'd encourage you to consider this strategy - and if you do that, to consider looking for used OM's b/c the purchase price will be lower, and if you decide it isn't right for you, you are more likely to sell it for close to what you bought it for... and then reinvest the funds in a different instrument.

Another thing to consider is to seek out other players in a reasonable distance radius from you who have and play OM's that you can try. Heck, host a CBOM gathering and watch 'em all come out of the woodwork to sample each others' instruments. I've been to two of those... one that I hosted and one that my friend Avi hosted, and each of these gatherings had a broader sampling of CBOMs than any store I've ever been to, Elderly and Mandolin Bros. included. Probably the biggest collection outside of Zoukfest. Worth doing and easy. All you need is a date and a place, invite potluck food and some people and *poof*! When Jude and I hosted, we just put a post up here in this forum, and got plenty of responses. Had a great time playing and sampling instruments...

KE

[capt_blood]

What's the difference between an octave mandolin and a bouzouki? I called to inquire about an OM, they said it was set up as a bouzouki. Is it just the strings or the tuning that's different, or is it something more?

Thanks!

I didn't see where anyone in this thread actually answered your original question. An OM "set up as a bouzouki" must be strung in octaves on the G and D pairs, which is how a (Greek) bouzouki is string. An OM will have all unison string pairs unless otherwise specified.

As other people on the thread have pointed out, the dividing line between OMs and bouzoukis is scale length. A Weber Sage at 23.5" scale length is sold as an OM. Anything longer made by anyone else will be sold as a bouzouki. The 23.5" scale then is sort of arbitrary. No less a luminary than John McGann states in this thread that "bouzouki" players tune GDAD instead of GDAE. But many (including me) tune GADE. You'll see other threads in this Forum about "standard left hand technique" for bouzouki playing. There is not such thing. Some people assign one finger to each fret, but I cover frets 2 through 7 and move my thumb as necessary, generally over a range of about 1 1/4".

If you go to Elderly Instruments, bring, or buy, the best capo available and play the Trinity College bouzouki they usually have in stock. At a scale length of 26 3/4", chances it will defeat you. Put the capo on at the first fret, and play the bouzouki again. Move the capo up one fret if capoing at the previous fret doesn't work for you. Repeat until you find the longest scale you can manage. If this turns out to be less than 22 inches, you should try out whatever OMs they have in stock.

[John McGann]

Sorry, Steve, I'll qualify my statement to "most" bouzouki players use GDAD (and other non-GDAE tunings like GDGD, AEAE etc.), and are playing primarily accompaniment in Irish/Scottish music. The accompaniment (and melody playing) tends to emphasize droning open strings in combination with fingered notes.

For those of us playing GDAE in other styles (including the above trad.) and playing stuff that goes beyond first position, scale lengths beyond 23" tend to be prohibitive to freedom of travel with the left hand. For closed position lines that lie mid-fingerboard and higher, being able to play 'in position' without having to shift several times a second is a distinct advantage, which takes the 'zouk out of the running for me.

I have been known to capo on occasion (as well as use non standard tunings) but it's usually to play more 1st position stuff and take advantage of the open strings. For freedom of travel around the neck, I prefer the non-capoed version, since all the notes are where they belong, on their usual frets, and I don't wind up serving a platter of clams as frequently

[dave17120]

Unbelievable....!!! Nobody mentioned a waldzither yet in this discussion.... perhaps that's too involved with "the Irish bouzouki question"???? Are there no Andy Irvine fans out there.....????

[Fran]

A G is still a G, but the tone color/harmonic content tends to be different between the two scale lengths.

Agreed. I have no scientific proof of that but I think that the longer the string, the more 'nodes' get produced when it gets plucked.

[Eddie Sheehy]

Call it a Boumandolin or an Octzouki - it still will all depend on the scale-length, the tuning, the strings, the sound-hole, the top, the woods, the maker, the player... a rose by any other name would smell as sweet...