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Thread: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

  1. #51
    Registered User jerrymartin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    Oh, my. It's just like my little A-50 would look after a Popeye-spinach-and-steroids cocktail. Does it have an I-beam for a truss rod?

    Oh my oh my oh my...

    Jerry M.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    I guess that truss rod cover answers some questions ...

  3. #53

    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    How would/should this be tuned? Like a double course alto guitar or requinto? Or some sort of 5ths tuning?

  4. #54

    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seter View Post
    How would/should this be tuned? Like a double course alto guitar or requinto? Or some sort of 5ths tuning?
    It was explained to me that it should be in standard guitar tuning, but up an octave.

  5. #55
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    That is so cool! An hour from “home”? That’s just amazing!
    I live in Kalamazoo, I’d really love to see that! I hope that you have someone who knows what’s what do any of the maintenance, if it’s just stringing, I’d be happy to help but, if it needs more “attention” there are a few people I’d trust. Glad you know someone.
    The TP looks like a “normal” mandolin design to me, I doubt they would have custom built a twelve hook design for the design, too expensive.
    So, you have something very interesting right there! It would be a blast to spend an afternoon with!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  6. #56
    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by abaird85 View Post
    I currently have it because he is letting me borrow it for a Christmas service.
    Who is "he?"

    If this one has been around K'zoo, it may be a mate to Barney's, as Gibson routinely made prototypes in threes back then.

    A-40-12. Now we have a model designation for it, anyway. Too much!

    Looking at the tailpiece, it appears that they just crammed 12 strings onto the tabs that were made to hold eight.



    Last edited by Paul Hostetter; Dec-12-2017 at 2:13pm. Reason: Facts, ma'am.
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  8. #57

    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Hostetter View Post
    Who is "he?"

    If this one has been around K'zoo, it may be a mate to Barney's, as Gibson routinely made prototypes in threes back then.

    A-45-12. Now we have a model designation for it, anyway. Too much!

    Looking at the tailpiece, it appears that they just crammed 12 strings onto the tabs that were made to hold eight.



    “He” is a friend of mine in his 80’s. Played primarily guitar, but some fiddle and mandolin in country, bluegrass and gospel groups. He also has a 1917 Gibson Mandolin, but I don’t remember the designation.

    Not to be nit picky, but the designation is A-40-12.

  9. #58
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Hostetter View Post
    ..Now we have a model designation for it, anyway....
    We actually had that back in message 20 of this thread.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  10. #59
    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by abaird85 View Post
    “He” is a friend of mine in his 80’s. Played primarily guitar, but some fiddle and mandolin in country, bluegrass and gospel groups. He also has a 1917 Gibson Mandolin, but I don’t remember the designation.

    Not to be nit picky, but the designation is A-40-12.
    Right you are.

    So he's owned this for its life? It's not, as far as you know, Barney's own instrument? Or is it?

    What's the scale length on it? Body width, etc.?
    .
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  11. #60
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by abaird85 View Post
    I have not opened it up yet. I'm going to take it to a tech that I trust to have the strings replaced and I'll get a look at it then.
    Paul H. is likely correct, strings look like they were simply doubled up on the standard t/p hooks. Cooleo stuff...

  12. #61

    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Hostetter View Post
    Right you are.

    So he's owned this for its life? It's not, as far as you know, Barney's own instrument? Or is it?

    What's the scale length on it? Body width, etc.?
    He bought it used and I’m not sure exactly when. I’ll have to ask him.

    Fretboard is 9 3/4”. Headstock is 9”. Body width is 10 1/2”. Body height is 13 1/2”.

  13. #62
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    I wonder how close this is in size to the six string Gibson M-6?
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    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  14. #63
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    Was the owner an employee back when this was produced?
    I agree the possibility of a couple being made is pretty high, three or four makes perfect sense.
    Yep, I made the stock TP statement back in #55, makes way more sense than some kind of custom piece for an instrument with, dare I say it, very limited market?
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  15. #64
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    Limited enough that the M-6 died. I had a friend that had the Goldtone copy of the 6 string. It was pretty near impossible to play but then again I'm not Barney Kessel.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  16. #65
    Registered User tree's Avatar
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    Dang, the headstock is longer than the back of the neck.
    Clark Beavans

  17. #66
    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by abaird85 View Post
    Fretboard is 9 3/4”. Headstock is 9”. Body width is 10 1/2”. Body height is 13 1/2”.
    Scale is the distance from the nut to the bridge. In other words, the vibrating string length. That's the measurement I was curious about.
    .
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  18. #67
    Registered User tree's Avatar
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    And I was responding to the 2nd photo in post #50 at the end of page 2, thinking it was the last post in the thread . . . then I realized I hadn't seen page 3.

    Anyway, that photo makes the headstock look really heavy, and the neck really short.
    Clark Beavans

  19. #68
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by tree View Post
    Anyway, that photo makes the headstock look really heavy, and the neck really short.
    Kind of like this one?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  20. #69

    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    Sorry about that. The scale is 14".

  21. #70

    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanN View Post
    Terrific.

    What does the tailpiece look like under the cover?

  22. #71
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    I kind of suspected that it would look like that.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  23. #72
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by abaird85 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks. And it's the classic "Use what you got!"

  24. #73
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    Well, did anyone really think it was going to be a custom 12 string tailpiece? They maybe made what, 3 of these? Makes no sense for them to have gone to the expense to put something like that into production, does it?
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  25. #74
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    Yeah, and hard to tell from pic, but looks like a metal strap pin. My ca. late 50's, early 60's A-40 has the cream colored pin, more to match the binding. And this tailpiece also looks to be split?

  26. #75
    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Barney Kessel Playing A Gibson 12 String Mandolin?

    This tailpiece is indeed about to blow. They weren't engineered for the pull of 12 strings, especially not fat ones like these. Check the rip across the bottom by the edge of the body:



    The sideways tabs would have ripped sooner, but I think the fold will die sooner. There are ways to fix this tailpiece. Any new base that you might put on will have the same engineering issues, so it makes more sense to rebuild the existing one.
    .
    ph

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