Chris Thile & Michael Daves Duo

[Jeff Budz]

The thing that bothers me is that the playing and singing is so great, why not have a great sounding recording to go with it? Everytime I listen to it I will think about how great it could have sounded.

I realize this is what they signed off on and wanted, and I'm a big CT fan, so I'm kind of confused. He has always had full-fidelity on his recordings, and that's one fo the reasons I enjoy them so much. Sorry if my dissapointment dissapoints you.

Another album that dissapointed me like this was the final Cadillac Sky album. After 2 great recordings someone decided to go vintage style recording on their 3rd (and ultimatly final) album. It sounds like I got ear muffs on.

[Larry S Sherman]

The thing that bothers me is that the playing and singing is so great, why not have a great sounding recording to go with it? Every time I listen to it I will think about how great it could have sounded.

I feel like I'm missing something here....it sounds good to me. I don't even think it's "lo-fi"....maybe "primitive", but not distorted or hissy. The instruments are balanced and on headphones/speakers it's mando left, guitar right.

It feels like I'm right there with them when I listen. Maybe I'm just more inclined to like a raw sound? I'm not sure.

I understand that you're looking for a particular type of production value, but not quite sure what that is. Cadillac Sky sounds a bit over-produced to my ears. Then again, Wakefield/Allen's Kitchen Tapes is what guitar/mandolin should sound like to me.

Larry

[JEStanek]

I also like the more raw sound of this recording compared to Why Should The Fire Die, for example. Like Larry, when I listen to this it feels like they are on my deck playing live.

Jamie

[Kevin McELvanney]

I'm considering dropping the cash on the itunes version with the extra tracks. Is their a possibility of them releasing a special edition disc in the near future I wonder?

Kevin

[Jeff Budz]

I also like the more raw sound of this recording compared to Why Should The Fire Die, for example. Like Larry, when I listen to this it feels like they are on my deck playing live.

If you A/B the album vs the black and white videos, you should hear a lot more treble from the guitar and mandolin. It is like night and day to me. For people with mild hearing loss, the high frequencies are the first to go, perhaps that has something to do with some people not being to hear the difference?

In the liner notes, they state that they use ribbon mics on 100% of the recording. Ribon mics are heavily "colored", attenuating the HF response. Condensor mics, like the one used in the B&W video capture the full frequency range of human hearing.

I'm not looking for overdubbing, reverb, effects, or anything like that. The B&W video is MONO with no processing and it sounds fine to my ears. If I were the producer I would have stuck them in a nice sounding room and had them play live into a stereo pair of condenser mics and called it a day.

Deciding to do your recording on 2" 8-track tape using vintage RCA 77 ribbon mics is a bold choice for a modern recording, and is deserving of discussion. I draw a parallel from making a new "vintage sounding" album and new "vintage looking (distressed)" mandolin. Good, bad and indifferent impressions will be held by different listeners / players.

[Caleb]

...when I listen to this it feels like they are on my deck playing live.

Jamie

+1 Sounds fine to my ear. I hadn't been this excited about getting a record in a long time. And the autographs will look cool in the mando case.

[Jeff Budz]

+1 Sounds fine to my ear. I hadn't been this excited about getting a record in a long time. And the autographs will look cool in the mando case.

Are you listening to the CD or iTunes version? Have you done an A/B comparison between the album and videos?

[PJ Doland]

What did you all think of the production on How to Grow a Woman from the Ground, which was just recorded with a pair of ELAM 251s?

[Jeff Budz]

What did you all think of the production on How to Grow a Woman from the Ground, which was just recorded with a pair of ELAM 251s?

I can revisit it, but it didn't bother me none. Perhaps it has to do with the combination of ribbon mics and tape? Or maybe the iTunes version doesn't sound as good as the CD version.

[JEStanek]

Jeff, thanks for the info. I had never known or considered that before. I just know what sounds good to me.

I'll most likely be listening to this in either my car while driving (1999 VW Beetle with original JBL speakers) or on my computer with 2 speakers and subwoofer or via headphones. When I compare the recording to similar styles (e.g., old Bill Monroe recordings or even the Red Allen Folkways recording) the Thile Draves recording is still more "pleasant" in terms of production and sound.

Jamie

[Ken_P]

I draw a parallel from making a new "vintage sounding" album and new "vintage looking (distressed)" mandolin. Good, bad and indifferent impressions will be held by different listeners / players.

Excellent point. It seems like they made a conscious effort not just to play older songs, but actually make it sound like an older analog recording. I'm inclined to agree with you - I love the fact that they played everything live, but I would have captured it with the best equipment available today so you could hear the full range of both instruments and voices. When I listen to the album, I feel like I'm listening to a recording, not at all like they're "in the room" as some claim.

Apart from the recording quality, listening to this album has reminded me that I don't really like bluegrass. I think I'd really enjoy a couple of the tracks if they served as a break in part of a more ambitious project, but a whole album of it just starts to grate on me. Even given how much I enjoy the playing, I just can't take the vocal style.

I really related to what Chris had to say in the (wonderful!) interview:

He says that playing some of those traditional songs had started to feel insincere to him. Like that's not really who he is right now. "I'm from Southern California and grew up idolizing Edgar Meyer and Bela Fleck, Tim O'Brien. But when the two of us played these bluegrass standards it gave all that music back to me.

I also grew up idolizing Bela and Edgar (still do), but I kind of had the opposite reaction - this album confirmed that this music is definitely not part of who I am. I enjoy picking a fiddle tune as much as anyone, but I don't like the singing, and I really need something with more meat to be fully satisfied.

[Caleb]

Are you listening to the CD or iTunes version? Have you done an A/B comparison between the album and videos?

CD version. Haven't done any A/Bing to compare. It does sound a bit different than most contemporary recordings, maybe a bit less "sparkly" or "bright." But I like it. Been listening to it all morning. No matter how they recorded it, you can't fake soul, and the whole thing is soaked in that.

[Tracey]

This thread has certainly taken an interesting turn.

90% of the music I listen to is through ear phones on my pc or i-pod. I import CD's at 360 bit rate, and to my ears, at that bit rate I can't really hear a difference. I downloaded the CD fro ITunes and it came in at 256. A bit less than I would have liked, but I'm not sure if I could hear a difference from the CD. Maybe on a good sound system, but I would just import the CD to my PC anyway.

I hope they release a DVD of the full performance that the video's were cut from. Not so much for the audio production, I just enjoy watching the performance and the interaction between Chris and Michael.

I'm relatively new to bluegrass. Though these songs are traditional and obviously been around a long time, I had not heard most of them. This CD is a blast to listen to. That they can play like that and sing like that at the same time is amazing to me.

The music of Bill Monroe is so highly revered here in the Cafe, in an effort to explore the genera from it's founder, I got The Music of Bill Monroe '36-'94. I started listening to the 1st cd, and before it was done I was about ready to slit my throat. Then I jumped to the 4th cd and enjoyed it more. I've noticed the same thing listening to Bluegrass Junction. I like the newer, not so much the vintage. Some people like that raw vintage sound, and the depression era subject matter. And it certainly has its place in the history of the BG. I prefer the more modern evolution of BG, both in terms of the musicianship, and the subject matter. For me this CD is a fine example of bridging that gap.

[Steve Cantrell]

This CD's sound quality is far better than the "How To" CD, which sounded to me like a dirge...listening to parts felt like a strain. I have noticed nothing amiss with this sound---it is a bit midrangey, but I like the vibe it produces. I wonder if Daves is almost slack-string then capoed on this, which might account for some of the rattle he is getting. I understand that he does that fairly often.

[Kirk Albrecht]

I will agree with Budz that the audio quality is better on the B&W videos - clearly better to me. I bought the CD (pre-order, got a couple autographs), have downloaded the 4 extra tunes plus The Man in the Middle video from iTunes. Can't hear a perceptible audio quality difference, but my systems aren't all that sophisticated.

The music is fun, powerful, and raw. I think that is what these two geniuses intended. It is somehow retro and progressive at the same time to my ears. I believe it sounds just as they wanted it to, and I'm glad it does.

[Tbone]

The thing that bothers me is that the playing and singing is so great, why not have a great sounding recording to go with it? Everytime I listen to it I will think about how great it could have sounded.

I realize this is what they signed off on and wanted, and I'm a big CT fan, so I'm kind of confused. He has always had full-fidelity on his recordings, and that's one fo the reasons I enjoy them so much. Sorry if my dissapointment dissapoints you.

Another album that dissapointed me like this was the final Cadillac Sky album. After 2 great recordings someone decided to go vintage style recording on their 3rd (and ultimatly final) album. It sounds like I got ear muffs on.

I agree. Glad I'm not the only one that was dissapointed in the production values. I'm listeining to mp3's through crappy ear buds, so I thought that was an issue....guess not.

I hadn't heard about C-sky, though. Bummer.

Also, one question - is that an octave mando on Mississippi Waltz?

[Mandotarian]

FYI for those in NYC...Rockwood Music Hall released some more tickets for tonights show. I thought I was sold out but got a ticket-looking forward to it!

For anyone that has seen them at Rockwood the last two nights, how was the show? Setlist?

[PJ Doland]

There's something about the rawness and energy of the recording that almost seems to bridge bluegrass and punk.

It's very Brooklyn-hipster, and I understand that some people might be put off by that quality.

I personally think it's the coolest thing I've heard in years.

[dtb]

MD looks like Buddy Holly. love the cd and the direction that CT seems to be at right now.

Dan

[doc holiday]

I was looking forward to hearing what Chris Thiele would do with these tunes & songs. First off, kudos to him for crediting Frankie Rogers with Ookpik Waltz (frequently attributed to trad.). This is a project I would rather prefer to hear live, & i'm sure i would enjoy the performance a lot. I did buy the CD on Itunes, and I wasn't keen on the production. I am a big Bluegrass (and jazz and old country) fan, and appreciate great singers.....so "Sleep With One Eye Open" won't be displacing Skaggs & Rice, & Kitchen Tapes among my favorites. I enjoyed Chris' mandolin playing (of course) but the guitar doesn't do it for me. Give me the D-18 tone of Kenny Smith for example, anytime. The frantic strumming with strings slapping the frets isn't my thing. To quote Charles Sawtelle, quoting a Hawaiian player "too much changalanga." It's always worth $10 to hear Chris Thile play....anytime

[Brian Harris]

I very much enjoy Thile's playing. It's amazing how he can "sing" with his instrument.

Conversely, it's amazing just how awful his vocal melodies are in his original tunes. I often think that if he never sang again, I'd be more than pleased.

However, I do like his voice here. Straight-up bluegrass. It's nothing remarkable, but it's tolerable. It blends well. I think he has a good ensemble voice but not a solo voice (much like mine).

Also: If you want to download these to keep, here's a good website explaining how to do it:

http://ossguy.com/?p=841

It will work on Windows and Mac I imagine.

[mandolino maximus]

It's a pleasant surprise to me to see the project and to to see it coming out of New York. It's got tradition and energy. I think I would enjoy a live performance more than this recording, but it's good to have a recording expanding bluegrass energy. Still, the sound is very high and lonesome and likely won't convert anyone averse to a hint of twang. Recording industry awards are partially dependent on commercial success, so we'll see. But, this ought to get some recognition specific to BG mandolin even if it doesn't end up sweeping the BG status quo off its feet.

About the NY thing, there is definitely an interest in live bluegrass/newgrass in urban areas. This particular type of high energy traditionalism may be emerging as "taking the kid gloves off" during live performances in urban areas. I'd like to see where that could go.

[Jeff Budz]

This CD's sound quality is far better than the "How To" CD, which sounded to me like a dirge...listening to parts felt like a strain.

It's funny that people could have such differing opinions on recordings. I'm listing to "How To" on my monitors right now and I think it sounds great from a recording standpoint. Warm, natural sounding stereo, full frequency response, subtle tube mic compression, like I'm in the room listening to them with my ears, possibly better.

“ It was recorded at Sear Sound in New York using two vintage Telefunken ELA M 251 E mics into a Forsell Technologies FetCode preamp. Most of it was recorded onto the same Studer 1" two-track that was used to mix Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band! Everything was tracked live..." (From Wikipedia)

The mics mentioned above are a stereo pair of what they say are the nicest sounding tube condensor mics ever made:

http://www.telefunken-elektroakustik...tem=3&cat=mics

I don't get how you think it sounds like a dirge... Sometimes this type of recording technique won't sound good when summed to mono or played on a system where the speakers are out of phase or improperly positioned, maybe that is it? I worry that many Cafe Members have HF hearing loss thanks to years of jam sessions with evil banjo players... or really mediocre stereos...

[Chris Keth]

There's something about the rawness and energy of the recording that almost seems to bridge bluegrass and punk.

It's very Brooklyn-hipster, and I understand that some people might be put off by that quality.

I personally think it's the coolest thing I've heard in years.

I'm right there with you. The production is simple but I don't hear anything lo-fi about it. I appreciate that it's recorded simply. It's simple music that doesn't need a lot of sprucing up to sound great.

[Popeye39]

Yes, MD does have that Buddy Holly thing going on. I think the audio is spot on for my ear. I love that it is not over produced, nor does it sound like they are playing through two tin cans and a string.